[url=#user_comment_132659]@Mikael[/url]: Not trying to bash, but I assume you haven't actually played, and are only talking about "making everything OP" in concept. It certainly does NOT take away from the skill. I've played League of Legends waaaaay more than I have played Dota 2, and it takes WAY more skill to play Dota 2 well.

>Buff same champion endlessly.
>Nerf same champion endlessly.
BALANCED GAME!

For those that still don't get it, the games (from left to right) are: World of Warcraft, Dota 2 and League of Legends.

[url=#user_comment_132532]@dreamshade[/url]: It's pretty pathetic. I enjoy LoL more than other MOBA games, but people can't get it through their biases that someone's preferences are different from their own.

@Wake The Shark: Negative x negative makes positive, so OP x OP makes everything balanced too.
Grow some balls and stop bitching.

Anyone else see the uncolored hair that sticks up on redhead Engy's head on the bottom left?

BR BR BR HUE HUE HUE

The Capcom way: make the sword even BIGGER and add a minigun and a rocket launcher but take away all your clothes so that you die instantly if anything hits you.

Riot way seems to be my kind of style. Valve's too stupid to know what balanced is so they just throw in even MORE imbalanced shit and assume that'll solve it.

Blizzard: This month, the programer likes mages.
Valve: You want to win? Pay up.
Riot: NERF IT ALL AND LET GOD SORT IT OUT!

Valve way is best.
It has hats

[url=#user_comment_132659]@Mikael[/url]: you obviously dont understand nothing about balance. Go play broodwar, DotA or TF2 then youll understand what is a perfectly balanced game

Valve keep it balance and...hahahahahahhahahaa

Totally over the hood or totally under it, at lease it's fair.

And this is why I'm done with blizzard games.
They think that making you OP half the time makes up for being UP the other half and just rotate it while messing with the basic style of every class and removing everything fun and call that balance.

Meanwhile valve can keep it balanced and stable.

[url=#user_comment_132659]@Mikael[/url]: Shows you know nothing about play Dota or HoN. "Who lands first spell wins". Do you play in scrub level or something?

...so those games always turn out one sided rampages, either you got lucky and stomp over the other team or they do it to you. LoL a fight could go either way, with skill you can turn a fight around or escape, and even if you lose, the next fight you might come out on top, the game isn't decided.

Making everything OP like Dota/Hon isn't fun at all, just takes all skill and strategy out of it, makes it a game of luck, whoever lands his spells first wins. And since those games have gold loss on death you can't pull off a comeback because the next time the other guy will have items you don't...

These gold costs in Tribes gotta get slashed in half man, or at least the ten dollar guns do. Seriously, the thumper is ridiculous, but I dont want to drop $10 for a gun in a video game. Borderline pay2play

Also the valve way: Add hats. bitches love hats.

[url=#user_comment_132389]@Kazmohdim[/url] Tribes: Ascend has a problem, though: If you don't have perfect internet connection or can't meet the absurdly high skill bar, you'll just end up dieing a lot and costing your team a lot of points.

your cookie cutter characters. Since everyone is OP in a different way, everyone plays differently as well, giving a more unique experience. The Riot way is more stable, but the Valve way more fun to play. (Yes the valve way is actually similar to icefrog's way :p)

I've actually made the reflection before, that both Dota and Tf2 tend to balance their characters by making them extremely powerful. Though the Riot way has it's peaks of being easier to balance, the Valve way I think provides more dynamic gameplay and characters who feel more unique than

You guys...

Panel 1: WoW
Panel 2: TF2
Panel 3: LoL

Why are you even talking about DotA 2?

Tibbers' Law: It is impossible to have a comment thread about League of Legends without being told that it is inferior to other games of its genre.

I really prefer the Valve's way. Making everything else imbalanced only increases the amount of fun.

The Riot way does seem like the only way that's remotely healthy in the long term, as Shenalia below says.

Take turns and you'll spend eternity playing whack-a-mole. Buff everything and the game will end up completely different.

DOTA SUCKS AND YOU KNOW IT

Webcomic using its own name as title. So. it has come to this.

Better nerf Irelia.

[url=#user_comment_132465]@Efrath[/url]: They're actually extremely similar games. Just DoTA is pointlessly complex and horribly imbalanced. Also, Engie-Tans should make out.

Oh hey, another DOTA fanboy. How about just accepting the fact that DOTA and LoL are two different games and stop being elitist about it, no matter which game you play?

Is more like "Shout out weapons and forget about them as you go on to make other weapons"

Blizzard Way: Just unfair half the time...

Valve Way: Whoever strikes first, wins.

Riot Way: You actually have to apply skill to do well. :P

If anything, its valve's somewhat lazy balancing. They often implement new items and never do anything about it unless it really calls for a nerf, such as the phlog. There are way more useless crap weapons people never use because there are more useful alternatives.

So, uh, what are the ultra broken weapons in tf2 again? as far as I can recall demo was nerfed years ago and none of the RLs are as strong as the stockRL/original. The enforcer/DR/spycicle maybe? The heavies that have remained powerful throughout its history?

... but of course, Riot's way have the problem of making everyone difficult to kill, thus dragging out the game.

You'd need to pile on the victories several hundreds of times to make a difference in a game... which, in a MOBA game, makes sense.

The problem: one person wiping the entire enemy team with skill alone.

The slight difference in skill, multiplied by the fact both players are flinging themonuclear skills at each other means that a few mistakes = someone winning the game.

Personally I think Riot's way is the best.

... And while both Valve's way and Riot's way works, each has their own problems:

Valve's way is the way of the kill. With big weapons on both sides, the action becomes insanely fast-paced, and fun can be gotten by one person wiping the entire enemy team with skill alone.

...

Here's one nameless opinion:
Blizzard doesn't actually balance units. Before you laugh, I'm just saying that Blizzard balances the META and gameplay rather than units.

And that, obviously, does not make one bit of sense in the "its almost like a different game" non-clan, non-high level players.

Riot could go broken with broken but that would leave the maps unbalanced with creeps and stuff. The new champ balance is ridiculous though, They either make it op or they just leave it to rot in the champ selection (poor Sejuani D: )

The valve way is the reason I stopped playing TF2 and joined Tribes Ascend.
Jo, you would like Tribes Ascend. It is the best FPS game I have ever played.

As a game designer? The "Riot Way" is the only healthy life cycle out of the ones presented.

Nerfing on Nerf Now?
http://inception.davepedu.com/

@Trolling Now: Lots of speculation for everyone!!!

I've been wondering for a while now (this concerns TF2): Do you pub or comp play? If so, what servers do you frequent? You strike me as somebody who would actually be able to play and not circlejerk the team.

[url=#user_comment_132302]@Shal[/url]: TF2 is why Valve games have received balance patches with that philosophy. TF2 is the main reason.

Brawl minus is the valve way done right, imho. It isnt supposed to be balanced.

Mass Effect endings as backgrounds?

did anyone else notice that in the Blizzard panel a sky blue hair is shown?

Valve way isn't really OP, it's just really exaggerated.

And Blizzard way F*CKING S*CKS

I think Broken vs. Broken is the best way. It leads to fun stuff like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and the entirety of TF2.

Riot is ALWAYS releasing OP champs.

The EA way:
Change swords and knifes to dildos.

VALVe's way is the best, though they're getting worse at balancing, ever since the first Australian Christmas. ;-;

The Phlog is a crutchy weapon and not normally a nuisance, but in the right hands it is devastatingly OP.

Riot's way is to make new champs OP as hell so people will buy them. Then, nerf them in the next patch or two.

phlog works ok if enemy team doesn't check flanks, doesn't have sentries covering backs and so on.. In other words bad teams.

then against teams that keep flanks checked and backs covered.. no hope or at least you will be awfully inefficient waiting and waiting.

Except Riot's way ends up with a game that's actually fun to play.

[url=#user_comment_132333]@HeXcoda[/url] I think you havent used it much. You are pratically invulnerable when taunting! And I am still waiting for someone to play well with the detonator.

As a career pyro, I don't use Phlog. I have yet to deploy Mmph successfully; invariably I'm dead before it runs out, even if I pull off the taunt without being bombed / sniped / stabbed.

Degreaser + Axtinguisher + Detonator. And I maintain 1:1 or better K/D, so I'm happy with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLDv-fUINM&list=FLMK4KR3zrnmMAeLWtR090ow&index=5&feature=plpp_video

[url=#user_comment_132326]@Nanoth[/url] ;[url=#user_comment_132328] @Enlong[/url] : 2) See also Ubered phlog for Nanoth's side, and spy and sniper for Enlong's side. The second the flamethrower goes down from the taunt, blam, no phlog critfest. And during taunt, stab, no phlog critfest.

Jo has just been on a roll lately. I think we need to get him a game reviewer gig.

[url=#user_comment_132326]@Nanoth[/url]: 1: Demonstrably incorrect. Visuals aside, the Phlogistinator uses the same particles as any other flamethrower. I haven't done the math or testing myself, but you can get the info from just about anyone on the Steam forums. 2: Burn things = Charge Mmmph + Taunt = dead from stickies.

For the love of god, just have sex you two!

@-_-: Have you even seen how the Phlogistinator works???
1: Its cone is constant, meaning unlike all others which are particle cones that collapse back towards the Pyro when running forward, this one stays extended the full distance all the time.
2: Burn things=Charge Mmpphh+Taunt=Crits+Full Heal

if only Valve would apply that rule to pyro too.

I preffer the Valve way, also, HL3 is up: http://store.steamcommunity.com.ua/app/430/

@Jake'm: class, not weapon.

[url=#user_comment_132312]@Mikael[/url]: I think it means they balance one weapon and end up unbalancing another.

Riot got the right idea imho (though they don't always get it right), it's why I prefer League of Legends and can't stand to play HoN and presumably won't enjoy Dota once it's out. Not sure what the Blizzard panel is referencing, are they making Blizzard Dota turn based?

valve way is the best IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH.
in Starcraft 2 there is the possibility to 'step in' your league where can play against 'equally matched' players, to should ADD an option of this for quickplay in tf2 and so, then the game would be awesome for pro's and noobs alike.

anyone tried Brawl: Minus? It's pretty much Valve way, except to the extremes.

[url=#user_comment_132254]@BowlerHatMan[/url]: As for the other two, it comes down to the game mechanics itself. LoL could set points for their stats where getting any more of it would reduce the actual amount you gained. TF2...I dunno, I don't play TF2 all that much, I'm not good at shooters.

[url=#user_comment_132297]@Gcd[/url]: I know, I have played most of them, except Portal 2 and TF2. I haven't noticed any kind of balancing in the ones I played (HL2 weapons were left as they were, same as CSS and DOD:S). I'm asking what Valve games have received balance patches with the "broken with broken" philosophy.

[url=#user_comment_132254]@BowlerHatMan[/url]: No, it's not. As much flak as it gets, Guild Wars' idea of having a pvp variation of every skill is what helps the most, because then you don't have to worry about a skill getting too strong or weak in PvE when you change it for PvP and vice versa, not some stupid pvp stat.

Engie-Kayle vs Engie-Morgana? I am okay with this.

[url=#user_comment_132290]@Shal[/url]: Valve has made more games than just dota 2 you know

Have to say, the Valve way seems to be the most functional, particularly given that it seems to actually work in my admittedly limited experience...

Shouldn't the second panel be "Icefrog" way? Or does Valve actually balance their other games with extreme mechanics like Icefrog does?

It's like DBZ all over again with ever escalating power levels.

@Watching: Your amazing scout it _The Scout_. He stuns, heals, deals incredible damage and is faster and more maneuverable than any other class.

and this is why you should play better games

In the background, you can see Irelia's weapon. Or maybe you can't. Because its so small.

What I'm getting at is that Irelia doesn't have a penis.

If valves way is to fight broken with broken where is my amazing scout

We have to go nerf-er!

I don't like this comic. But this is actually rather accurate.

[url=#user_comment_132239]@HolyHand6renade[/url]: yeah, that's bullshit. I've had a dk since wotlk came out. At the moment, they are middle of the pack AT BEST. The only time DKs were op recently is when you could get vengeance in pvp. If any class is op all the time, it's rogue.

[url=#user_comment_132237]@DiscoHippo[/url] Not really. That leads to power creep and other natiness. http://www.mmodesigner.com/?p=63 is a nice article on the subject, by the Lead Designer of a mainstream MMO.

[url=#user_comment_132249]@Bob[/url]: Good luck with that! Player will find a way to explore them, even if it isn't really that bad they will complain anyway.

is the riot way also the CCP way? Over nerf something, then 5 years later only consider re-evaluating the change. Then near the 6 year mark give it a slight 5% boost to minor stat?

[url=#user_comment_132249]@Bob[/url]: Not without reducing the game to Tic Tac Toe. The more complex a system gets, the more points of interaction it has, the more likely it is that imbalances will occur. By the time you get to something as complex as even the most basic of video games, true balance is pretty much impossible.

What's the way of not making broken things in the first place?

Also, dem Poker faces.

Blizzard Way: No clue

Valve Way: Dealing imba stuff with another imba stuff.

Riot Way: Nerfing the imba to imba (in the other way)

Except the DKs turn to be OP is every turn.

as usual, the Valve way is the best way