I find the Final Fantasy games to be an art, a fun art most times but to me, FF7 had a story that could easily be a novel or something. FF12 was cinema in form of a game with the cutscenes being action packed and enjoyable. even the older ones FF 1-5 were art reviving the old stories

[url=#user_comment_326387]@Cookie[/url]: That's a very, very narrow minded perspective.

Video games ARE art. The Supreme Court says so, ergo it shall be protected as freedom of speech.

But even before the Supreme Court's decision it was still art. People have been expressing themselves with video games since before Missile Command.

[url=#user_comment_326185]@Zero[/url]: Exactly correct, sir. you are awarded one internet. that stuffy gallery/ exhibition scene is not the epitome of "all art" and im pretty sure that's the only real idea Jo has of what is, and is not,"art" so really my criticism would be "please don't talk about shit you don't understand"

Uh...you guys know that music is considered art right...?

As a once game dev myself I'd have to say that different types of people create different types of games just like different people enjoy different types. I think we're only just now starting to see the equivalent of the "Summer Blockbuster" in gaming so the artsy stuff just stands out a little more

Art is boring.
Games are games if they are fun.
If they are art, they are not fun, if they are not fun they are not games.
See?

I take game over art.
Any day of the week.

most and it end up being earsplitting over voice, or lots of swears and capitals in text. Gaming is a bit of a microcosm of the world, pretty much every group has some kind of representation. For the PA stuff, look at a lot of people in politics.

@???: That's part of the problem though, the online chats look a lot more childish because that's who tend to dominate them. It may start out as a nice chat with lots of info or friendly talk, but toss in a few children(or childish adults) and they start trying to "lead" the chat or show off the...

Not to mention a lot of the extreme stereotypes that exist in gaming haven't really been addressed. See: Whatever bigoted BS Gabe of PA spews (and his supporters back blindly), the chats of any online game. People still think this childish because gamers still ACT childish

...what the bros play, ie CoD/Halo and sports games. The hipsters tend to also be dismissive of gaming because it's not a hip thing to talk about (unless it's, say, whatever Jane McGonigall talks about or something). This is as much a reaction to that as it is an attempt at apotheosis.

I think that PAR nailed a point recently: There are still large areas (esp. Middle US) where gaming is considered a childish, antisocial activity, and gamers are stigmatized and manipulated by their job or social life to hide their playing. The only games accepted in these places are... (cont.)

Y'know, just because a person appreciates one medium of art doesn't mean they automatically like all of them. Just try to get a film critic to critique music. I'm sorry Jo, but this one was kind of dumb.

Being 'Art' is a selling point. Except for a very few indie games, the 'Art' bit probably doesn't even come into the equation until it hits the marketing department. It's one of those generic labels that sounds specific without actually saying anything at all.

It's all in the same shit. People who like fun stuff will continue to enjoy stuff and people who don't like fun stuff will continue to be boring.
People who need to hide behind such words as "art" and "mature" are the ones truly still stuck in the gradeschool mentality.

[url=#user_comment_325463]@Alex[/url]: YES. Exactly this. One also need not appreciate the artistic merits of a work or be willing to spend time examining them to simply acknowledge that a work is art.

These comics don't get too many comics. Pretty sure they get less views compared to DOTA2 comics.

Maybe he really should stick to them.

I don't even play DOTA.

When he does DOTA2 comics, people come, and fight, and give views.

If you like SOME kind of art, it does not mean you have to like EVERY kind of art.

I think the distinction is far less for the consumers than the creators. The amount of work that goes into creating a game is no less arduous and talented than a film or a novel, and in many cases more.

This is hilarious

And i agree with Jo, whathever the hell is gaming considered i don't care, it's my hobby and i love it. Be it art or childish.

To some degrees, videogames ARE masterpieces, but i find it hard to believe as some kind of culture. I DO hate art, Romanticism, Symbolism, Parnassianism and so on, i don't see any entertainment in that, but i do recognize the value of studying it.

rawr rawr rawr

To a degree, I don't blame them. Art or not, video games are interactive, and involve the viewer directly. The kind of art in exhibitions, you just, well, look at. Different audience, really.

http://nerflater.com

your welcome

I really hope you were joking Dr. Beat, but I think this is what you may have been thinking.

League of Legends is now considered a legitimate U.S. Sport

http://www.geek.com/games/us-goverment-confirms-league-of-legends-is-a-legitimate-sport-1562188/

Inb4 LoL v. Dota 2 trash posts

i dont know about other countries but in the US we argue for video games to be considered art because being classified as art gives them protection under the freedom of expression which would stop government attempts to censor it

video game 'art' still needs to be aesthetically pleasing. If art exhibitions were not so much 'sloshed paint and incomprehensible sculpting', i'd go see them more often too.

Journey for the PS3. Thats art. The one and only.

Hey Jo, if you got a spare ticket you can give me one, I rarely meet other people who make comics irl. :D

games can be diverse, some can have great gameplay, some great stories, no need to require every game to fill every role

great straw man m8

@Random Dude: Let me know when that happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdU8bXbSQjE

I personally happy with people being indifferent when i played games. Its enough.

I'm a game developer. Art is deeply involved in a game, but the final product doesn't have to be artistic. IMO for a game to be considered art, it needs an element (sometimes unquantifiable) that makes the game mean something. Something that makes the game more than strategy and competition.

continued: I work on my car (car jacking in GTA) so we gamers basically kind of have to mask we are gamers... unless we are around other gamers.

This is still popular: A guy asks a girl out, the inevitable question comes "so what do you do for fun?" guy says "Im a gamer" girl's face contorts to that oh so well known face "really? still?". So we all lie about our "hobby". I love long walks in the park (trekking in Skyrim).

As far as people feeling uncomfortable because they don't feel video games are an "adult" hobby, I think C.S. Lewis said it best: "When I became a man, I put away my childish things, including my fear of being thought childish and my desire to appear so very grown up."

I used to hang out with some cool people that owned a photo art gallery. They always tried to make me visit them and somehow I always politely refused with some dumb excuse.

Yeah, I know. Shame on me.

@Dr. Beat: The internet called. Your googling rights have been revoked due to misuse.

@Dr. Beat: DOOM was an e-sport. Unreal Tournament was an Esport (One I wish would return). Counterstrike is an e-sport. DOTA, League of Legends, and Starcraft are e-sports. Fighting games are e-sports. There are hundreds.

Now a sport? Which game is now an electronic sport?

I see it this way, Gamers are Gamers, that's just that.
Games are art because Game Developers are artists, that doesn't mean we have to treat it like sculpture or classical music, we're still just gamers playing, well, games.

@Dota Fanboy: *comic

Jo, you gotta follow this one up with a oomib about sexy beach 3.

Hey Jo, don't worry, I'll come with you. Just send me a ticket and I'll get to you somehow~ :3

[url=#user_comment_325183]@Verteros[/url]: Naive, that's like saying racism has all but disappeared, the stigma against gamers isn't as mainstream as it used to be, but it's still running strong. The gamer group got a lot bigger, that's for sure, but people outside of that group still carry the stigma as they always have.

Know the pain Jo... know your pain D:

If you still think there is a stigma against gamers, you're talking to baby boomers, talk show hosts and clique chicks.

The stigma has all but died, gamers are literally everywhere.

they always have been art. not only because they are, but also by definition of the word

They are art though, games are beautiful and bring joy.

I think you've got it about right, really. Whether or not games are art, it doesn't matter as long as they're enjoyable.

Games would be a lot more mature if gamers weren't still constantly parented by third parties; Half a sideboob in mass effect? We can't have that! Think of the children!

I think, rather than video games being art, they are a medium on which art can be presented. The result may or may not be a "game", but it's easier to call it that than "Interactive Fiction" or something.

Considering some of the art I've seen in genuine art galleries, I have no problem calling some games as art. Some are so beautiful that I think the screen shot belongs in a museum, right between the toilet sitting on a square patch of astroturph, and the giant spoon with a cherry perched on it.

nice tits

I'll just leave this here: Extra Credits episode "'Art' is not the opposite of 'fun.'"

http://youtu.be/fLKVg-2d54c

Whilst I couldn't care less if games are art or not, invoking it strikes me as developers being in denial (they ARE making games to make money above all else).

Doe not help that thought :)

Can only agree with the note :). Also personally I wouldn't define myself as "gamer" due to all the idiots out there with out proper knowledge of games - of course could just be me being slightly elitist in that regard, but I don't "game" games, I PLAY games and people talking shit over the game ...

Here is what most concider to be art: Paintings and Movies (Visual), Music (Audio) and Books (Storytelling).
All of the aforementioned arts are present in games, but adding Interactivity to the mix suddenly makes them not-art?

Games are art, always have been and always will be.

Games became an art long ago. Just play "Pathologic" from Ice Pick Lodge studio. Their chief director had some great presentation about computer games becoming a piece of art (in russian language).

I've never seen the situation of video games as art and video games as video games being in conflict. Let's use movies for example, they are art, but having artistic movies doesn't mean we lose our summer blockbusters, and vice versa. I see the same situation with games.

Really good games contain both great gameplay and artistic excellency (visuals, story, voice-acting etc.), so there is no reason why games can't both be button pressing and a work of art.

[url=#user_comment_325062]@Eugoheop[/url]: Not all games are art, just the same as with other media. Even games which on their own merits would be considered nothing more than commercial products, might create art if the player is able to apply their skill to create an appreciable performance.

[url=#user_comment_325021]@Tank[/url]: Yeah, because CoD is purely an aesthethic experience and new Assasins Creed is a fucking catharsis. The only "art" you can find in games are those little indie thingies which are made to give some message. The Path, to name one. Every other game is just a PRODUCT, not a piece of art.

People think Paintings when they think 'art'. 'Games' are performance based. Like an opera, dance, and the like. The combination of elements and especially the interaction with and by the observer is where the 'art' lives.

Hey jo? If engie doesn't want her ticket, can i have it? :D

If games "become" art?? It already is! Ridiculous not to think so.

I'm kinda disappointed on this one Jo, I think you're missing the point. It's not about "feeling better about yourself", it's an obvious conclusion you can make by playing quality games.
If people use their brain and creativity to make them, and they do, who's stupid enough NOT to call it art?

So wait. What is your opinion about people that like video games being arty? I know you don't care about art in video games obviously from the comic strip, but your comment seems to assume aspects about that demographic's line of thought.

(cont)
I find it's just too much of an insult to time and effort others have put into the games.
Because, honestly, even if you think games themselves aren't art, the people who make them are definitely artists.

Maybe I'm off on this, but I've always supported the idea of video games as art, because the people who say it isn't are so dismissive of the effort and creativity that goes into making games.
People that look at a painting and call it a masterpiece, but then look at a game and say "just a toy"

...it either has meaning or it's just a color filled mess with no meaning.

Who's that next to Engie-tan, who the fuck is that?!?!
Anywaaaayyss, regarding art. Art is a pretty complex subject since a lot of things can be considered as art. A picture of me playing tf2 could be considered as "art" to some, hell most modern art I've seen are too abstract that...

...compared with the Mona Lisa or Starry Night. You wouldn't normally compare The Godfather with something like Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle. For something to be art, it must succeed at its medium. The game that most comes to mind as an example of art is Bastion. It succeeds on every level IMO.

Its hard to define art. The closest analog to video games in the realm of art is motion pictures. Movies are composed of music (art), images (art) and writing (art). This doesn't mean that every movie would generally be considered art the same way a child's finger paintings would be compared with

So who's the guy sitting on the couch? Can't be a random guy because he knows Jo & Engie. [url=#user_comment_324965] @Legacy[/url] Games are composed of art, sure. But are the actual mechanics of the game itself, the damage ratios of the guns, the map design, the balance of the gameplay, are they themselves art?

I remember back when games were about gameplay.

sorry, the dictionary wasn't for you. Don't take it personally.

And here's a better definition for you, from a proper dictionary. Specifically, Merriam-Webster.

Art: the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects

Anyway, more to the point.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/04/21

Good day.

[url=#user_comment_324951]@Marc[/url] A) that's totally false, and B) it would be irrelevant even if it wasn't. The earliest games were designed around hardware limitations and limits in availability of access to computers, period. Just a little improvements in both areas and you start seeing games like Zork (1977) show up.

art
[ahrt]noun
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art?s=t

By my view, the media gives way more credit for games that are pretty and have back story than they are fun. [url=#user_comment_324927] @Legacy[/url] at start games were meant to give only entertainment. Didn't matter the graphs or the history.

That's how I view games, they have pictures, music, writing, all of which are individually artistic, but when expressed through their own interactive medium, the artisic value of the whole exceeds the sum of its parts. That makes sense, right?

I always view the "games as art" discussion in terms of music albums. I used to think that an album was just "Ok, it's been 12-13 songs since our last album, let's bundle these and sell it", but what makes an album special are the underlying themes and consistencies across all the songs. (cont)

Just like a good book is art or a painting, art in involved in the creation of a game. But the point where you call a game "art" is hard to define.

I would call a game "art" if it's unique, not yet another clone. ("Journey" was an example I think.)

As an aside to the comic itself, I understand, comedy, but...I think its kinda silly to say "They can't say games are art cause they don't want to go to an art exhibition"...

Just cause you like one thing doesn't mean you like another, again, art is subjective.

I personally think of it this way; A game is art if that is what you believe it is. Its more or less the same with other mediums too. People have said certain kinds of music aren't art (I personally believe 99% of the "hit list" songs are utter garbage, not art to me)

Art is a subjective thing.

Don't be daft.

A video game is the accumulation of hundreds of hours of sketching, modeling, graphic art, music, architecture, writing, and whatever else. Art piled upon art, it can be nothing but art.

Whether an individual game is actually GOOD art or not is entirely superfluous.

Games I see as ART:
Max Payne: Soo touching and the nordic mithology is used perfectly.

Shadow of the Colossus: Speaks for it self. Epic game.

Heard about The Walking Dead, bought it on Steam sale. Not played yet.

MAYBE Portal, but I think the Bar for being called art is really HIGH.

Im soo sleepy i cant even type right. The last sentence of my another post should be:

But see, it is a title earned, not given to it during its production.

Well, I kinda agree to you Jo.

Games are good as Games, and they should NOT try to classify themselves as Art.

However a game should try to be the BEST it can, and sometimes, it is soo intense it may be called Art.

But see, it is a title is earned, not given to it during its production.

If videogames were art they would be protected by more laws from getting badly butchered in the name of censorship etc, that's the only advantage i see.
I have no problem with VGs being called sports (like chess is), since that is more defined by competition than its athletic aspects.

It's a little hard finding artsy video games these days now since all people want to do now is to shoot things dead and flaunt thier E-peen.