I'm OK with fanservice, but only when it is uniform. If you only emphasize "the sexy" on the girls (or only the guys - though I've never seen it happen), then I'll complain. Also, it is no substitute for gameplay, plot, character development and so on. And not every game and genre goes well with.
Jordan
over 12 years ago
I like when a game's female characters are exactly the sexy same, because it signals that I don't need to waste my time trying it out. Developers who make a character-driven game and don't spend a lot of time fleshing out the character designs probably didn't spend a lot of time making the game fun.
Piss off
over 12 years ago
Seriously? So not wanting a slutty female character makes us arrogant?
Go eat a bag of dicks.
Taran
over 12 years ago
Seriously Nerfnow?
There are women out there who are not interested in looking good, and/or don't. Do you think they appreciate the massive stereotype that every "good" (meaning playable) female character in games is not only beautiful but is beautiful in ridiculous situations?
Many can't.
Penis lips
over 12 years ago
It's not that flashing skin is offensive, it's illogical and breaks immersion.
>Man has to wear Hyper-mecha full plate armour from top to bottom
>Girl has to wear spandex bikini and a pair of high heels
>Gives the same armour level
>.>
Threesome
over 12 years ago
If there was any fanservice there should have been a threesome.
Oh damn it - you should be able to choose with whom you make an orgy - Wrex seems like a cool guy ^^
Threesome
over 12 years ago
Mass Effect fanservice?
Nope
When I tried to bed Liara and Ashley at the same time there..SPOILER!..was a meeting were they put the gun on my chest and told me to choose - when you ask them blatantly to just go with a threesome they deny you this pleasure.
Foxy
over 12 years ago
As a female gamer, I don't like playing female classes because they do tend to flash a whole lot more skin then I would feel comfertable in myself. They are unnaturally unrealistic, and only there to please both the horny gamers turned on by such things, and the developers. Be offended by me then.
Fewfew
over 12 years ago
Betas just be afraid of sexy women, they don't wanna have to look at what they can't have
Role
over 12 years ago
WRONG!
I have some characters who will wear the slutty stuff, but other characters I play are more modest about things. To wear such gear is a violation of their values, and thus out of character. I don't say to remove all the slutty stuff, I'm just saying have BOTH that and modest options.
Dwarfio
over 12 years ago
"for every guy who buys a game because of fanservice there's a girl who decides not to because of it"
Worst lie ever told.
Talcon
over 12 years ago
Ok this comic is really cool and all but you're still a pervert who does fan service.
Rho
over 12 years ago
I'm really liking the comments section to this comic, lotsa people understand that fanservice can get totally ridiculous. Some stuff is made for fanservice, some isn't and SHOULDN'T be. Also: more female characters that aren't just fanservice please.
How about...
over 12 years ago
I'll admit instances such as in ME2 got very irritating by the end, but I personally feel that simply having the OPTION for characters of both genders to be used as fanservice or not, perhaps based on costume and character customisation, could ease this problem if not solve the underlying issues.
If it doesn't work for advertisements I'm pretty sure games can stop doing it. It's just embarrasing when girls can skimp around in metal bikinis and still get the same protection as a guy covering his entire body with armour.
some Breton
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_138027]@Missedthepoint[/url]
skyrims armours weren't all that revealing, and that sold really well so agreed
in all honesty, I dont mind this kind of stuff as long as theres the sensible alternative (see->rift with many female armours being revealing, but many others being sensible. that + wardobe = choice)
Runic
over 12 years ago
@missed
Fair enough, but my point was merely an explanation of why it occurs, not a justification for it to continue.
I'd prefer variety and common sense myself, but I know that there are those who prefer over the top.
Companies also have a habit of ignoring detail like that for "tried and true"
Marielx
over 12 years ago
Pfft, who cares if its erotic or not, its retarded to see a game (Take TERA as an example) where males are giant iron walls while women are practically naked yet both have the same defense and stuff.
Seriously, its ridiculous and stupid.
VioletZer0
over 12 years ago
I don't mind it to an extent. But there are times where it is just silly and makes me feel horrible for playing it. Which the case with TERA.
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137885]@Runic[/url]:
I never said it was, simply that it's becoming a standard replacement in the sense of an A or B choice where A is something like character development/growth and B is a mini skirt and tube top. Yes sex sells, but so does quality and the later sells better (see Valve/Nintendo).
Cramps
over 12 years ago
@Zero-00: sorry, I was arguing against your choice of the word "ONLY" but you then used the word "USUALLY". which doesn't make sense as a whole but, whatever. I'm sure there are God-Bothering people who spout such things but there's other people as well. I just picked you as an Anti-Religion type.
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
[cont2] ..is about to tap more girls than a woodpecker does trees, as it is actually explained partly through the lore and the way the setting is laid out.
Mass Effect isn't. In Mass Effect it's basically "Oh, I'm a strong, confident independent woman-- oh, hi Shepard, sex plz?"
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
[cont] ..in Mass Effect, it's played for obvious pandering sexual fanservice. Putting it this way; Mass Effect is basically an outer-space dating sim, whereas The Witcher is a novel that happens to have sex in it. See the difference? The Witcher actually gives a reason for why Geralt.. [cont2]
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137985]@RandomIdiot[/url]
Well, your name is at least right when you compare the sexual traits in The Witcher to the ones in Mass Effect. The difference here is that while in The Witcher the presence of sexual content is more or less just part of the setting.. [cont]
RandomIdiot
over 12 years ago
Jo, it IS a problem because fan service has nothing to do with gameplay. Games like The Witcher and Mass Effect are more about who to have sex with. That's just SAD. And it is often purely sexist; ergo give women something to stare at as well or just don't include any fan service at all.
Runic
over 12 years ago
@ mechwarrior2
Never said it was an excuse, I said it as a rationalization as to why it happens.
[url=#user_comment_137687]
@Missedthepoint[/url]
Except you still avoid two key points. 1. being that not the entirety of the industry uses it in place of quality, just some 2. It is reaction to what people will buy. Sex sells.
Lol
over 12 years ago
I've never been offended by having sexy girls in video games, even if I may agree it's excessive. However, playing Tera, I've got to say, it's a little too sexy. So much so it's distracting me all the time X_X
Daniel
over 12 years ago
This sounds like every moron complaining about Skullgirls.
If Skullgirls was sexist, instead of fighting over the Skull Heart, the characters were fighting over a man named Marty Stu or Tenchi or Geralt of Rivia. Instead, they have their own goals, dreams, and social circles.
Kastorr
over 12 years ago
The guy is a bit pretentious, but what he's saying isn't /false/, per se. It's not about a few games ruining the name of all games, it's about a few games ruining their own name. So the fanservice is unfortunate, but there are plenty of "serious games" without it, making this guy overly pretentious.
Mein Herr
over 12 years ago
Fanservice makes the world go round.
Litterally.
Without fanservice the Earth would shoot off into SPAAAAAAAAACE.
An Onymous
over 12 years ago
I love fanservice, not gonna deny it. If a games got some kind of fanservice (or even eroticism) it'll probably sell. Heck, aside from gameplay, some of us will buy it just for that.
P.S. Skullgirls
George
over 12 years ago
[cont3] Until that happens, though, don't judge people based on their opinion of fanservice. I don't call you a wannabe dictator with OCD and a God complex because you like RTS games and micromanagement (this time doesn't count), so don't call me a sexist pervert for liking digital boobies.
George
over 12 years ago
[cont2] er, "the game's merits", not "another flaw". The only way to get more good, low-fanservice games out there is to show developers that that's what sells, even if a high-fanservice game is really good in other areas. It's tough, but that's the only way to make a point to an entire industry.
anon
over 12 years ago
fuck those people. the solution is to sexualize men as well, not ban sexualization.
George
over 12 years ago
[cont.] or they're selling a fairly generic game based on its fanservice value (like DOA, or any number of shows/movies). However, gamers should treat excessive or out-of-place fanservice they way they treat any case of bad game design- don't buy the game if you really feel it outweighs another flaw
George
over 12 years ago
But as long as the discussion's been started... I've always thought that fanservice should be treated like any other trope or device, by gamers and developers alike. Developers should make fanservice optional unless they can find a really good way to fit it to the story/character/setting...
George
over 12 years ago
[cont] I have no idea, but it's not what most people are assuming. Jo is trying to make the point that people who dismiss games as a "serious" medium are arrogant twats who want to feel righteous.
George
over 12 years ago
Is it just me, or are a lot of people missing the guy's last statement? He isn't being a standard prude, he's being one of those annoying "True Art is X" people and just using prudishness as a cover for his true intent- to declare games "not True Art" and thus inferior. Why is he doing this?
???
over 12 years ago
Como pode você compreender? Você é brasileiro. Você não está vivendo em um estado que seja controlado por pentecostais.
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
[cont2] ..It's the same with sexual innuendo. Innuendo works the best when it's ambiguous and not blatantly obvious with someone jabbing you with their elbow as if to say "Eh? Eh? Know what I mean? Eh?" like an annoying 13-year-old prat who's just learned his first truly dirty word.
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
[cont] ..the sexual content isn't the primary focus. It's there, but it isn't blatantly shoved in your face as if to say "LOOK! LOOK! SEXY! SEXY SEXUAL SEXY STUFF! AREN'T WE COOL AND EDGY AND STUFF? WE'RE WAY OUT THERE, BOLD AND DARING!" like, say, Mass Effect, or other EA releases. ..[cont2]
Drrrr
over 12 years ago
Personally, I have no problem with eroticism, if it's eroticism that makes sense. Take Game of Thrones, for example. The nudity and the sex actually makes sense for the setting, the characters and the whole 'feel' the world sets up. The Witcher 2 is the same. In both these series.. [cont]
CM
over 12 years ago
Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.
CM
over 12 years ago
You know the funny thing about this particular comic? Group A (black shirt) complains that group B (comic author) puts things group A doesn't like (juvenile content) in games.
Then group B complains that group A wants to put things group B doesn't like (strict moral code) in games.
AG
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137783]@AG[/url]: The nearest thing we have to character development for the main character in the vast majority of games currently made is buying a weapon upgrade.
AG
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137782]@AG[/url]: In fact, the whole "escapist power fantasy" thing is the most legitimate reason as to why games are looked down on as a storytelling device.
AG
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137781]@AG[/url]: And power fantasies get really boring really quick, and never are good stories
AG
over 12 years ago
I think that games need to move away from escapist power fantasies in general, and move over towards a storytelling experience, I.E., the PC is NOT invulnerable and infallible, and the characters all have flaws. This sexualization is a manifestation of the whole male power fantasy thing in general.
Dr. Obso1337
over 12 years ago
You're confusing me a bit, but I gonna go with your first response to "I'm 12"
Every game should strive to be immersive in some way. Hell, books, movies and so on should as well. That's what makes it truely fun and gets you attached. If it's not drawing you in, the game is failing in my opinion.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
If immersion was so massively important, we wouldn't have enormous guns and swords that are there to just be badass, or over-the-top, flashy kill moves and magic that are there to be impressive. I don't see why we need to hate things that are there just to impress us, give us thrills, or look sexy.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
My meaning was that immersion keeps being toted as some sacred relic that needs to be in every work. It isn't. Some works are specifically meant to immerse us, some aren't. Elder Scrolls aims to give us immersion. Other games don't, like Rachel in Ninja Gaiden. Both should be valid design choices.
I'm 12 Wat's This?
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137772]@Pingas[/url]
Maybe because it does break immersion to see my female knight wearing less armor than the fucking barbarian? "Entertainment"? Maybe to you. All it does for me is make the work impossible to take seriously. I don't need pointless tits in my video games, there's the internet for that.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
It's not like we pick up games like God of War featuring a burly rage warrior wading into battle with no shirt to be "immersed".
Pingas
over 12 years ago
...But it's not as though it's anything more than a design choice when used in tandem with other concepts of good story-building and content design.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
Why is it always about the "immersion"? Can't people simply say they don't like it and not use immersion as a scapegoat? Most shows and games are there to give us entertainment. Fanservice is simply another kind of entertainment. It definitely shouldn't be the ONLY source of entertainment...
I'm 12 Wat's This?
over 12 years ago
seriously
I'm 12 Wat's This?
over 12 years ago
I don't mind fanservice if it makes sense, Black Widow in The Avengers for instance, but fanservice almost never makes sense. Why is the female tank wearing a metal bra? Why does female plate armor form fit like it's made of leather? These things break immersion and make it hard to take a something
I'm 12 Wat's This?
over 12 years ago
I used to get excited about boobs in video games...then I turned 16 and got my head out of my ass. 99% of the time the fanservice is either shoehorned in or makes zero sense. Either way it detracts from the work as a whole (see Fox, Megan in anything ever).
bunivasal
over 12 years ago
Not really. It's more irritating than anything, because "erotic" isn't something I find particularly erotic. I don't have a problem with fanservice, per se, but wouldn't it be nice if someone could get their dick out of their hand long enough to do anything else?
Troper
over 12 years ago
TV Tropes actually has several pages related to this, but i think the image for http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainmailBikini sums it up nicely.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
I mean, hell. To this day, there are WoW players who raise a stink over the existence of bikini armor in the game. Not that new armor is designed with bikini looks. That OLD ARMOR dating YEARS BACK has the bikini plate design. They enjoy the game yet feel the need to moan about old-ass service.
Pingas
over 12 years ago
...And we get much of the same complaining. People who write it off as a lousy game because it has fanservice, ignoring the merits of the game itself.
Granted, a game may not need every character to be a sex fantasy. But can you really claim you'd be fine with it if the rest of the game was good?
Pingas
over 12 years ago
Then, if the problem is that the games substitute fanservice for quality... What happens if the game is actually a good game? It's true that there's quite a lot of games that are there just to shill fanservice - that's how we got DOAX, after all - but along comes a sexy character in a good game...
pong
over 12 years ago
er...transformer, not terminator.
pong
over 12 years ago
Normally it doesn't bother me, but if it does, it isn't because I'm offended about the sexuality, but rather, that they think that is the best way to appeal to their audience.
It is like including a token black guy in every movie, is that really what people want? A terminator that acts black?
Derpkerp
over 12 years ago
Honestly, I've always ignored the fan service in NN. As I said before, if I want to masturbate, I'll watch porn. If I want to play a game, I'll play a game. Do they have to mix?
Wolfoso
over 12 years ago
Erm, ever heard of the Adepta Sororitas? Sexy as hell, clad in full armor.
Wanna sexy? Add the option for frontal nudity, like in Age of Conan, but please, armor is made for protection.
It's not about sexy, it's about stupid, and Bikini plate is plain stupid.
Vulpis
over 12 years ago
Personally, I'd say that my reaction is less 'offended' than 'majorly *irritated*' by it--a sensibly equipped and clad female can be just as sexy as the chainmail bikini, after all. Sex may sell, but getting your nose rubbed in it when you just want to play a game gets...a bit repulsive.
Cubey
over 12 years ago
We already knew every comic with the crystal ball is fucking terrible, but this is a new low.
Surely anyone being offended by ANYTHING - sexual objectification, racism, etc, is just being a self-righteous bigot. Amirite?
Stravagante
over 12 years ago
While scantily-clad elves and the like are a part of gaming culture that is now nigh-inseparable.. has to be said: games COULD be doing more to stop it. Alexstrasza from WoW, the leader of the Red Dragonflight.. appears to be wearing a metal thong in an arctic tundra.
In a war-zone.
Huh.
RoderickBR
over 12 years ago
I kinda expected the ball to reveal that he secretly played just for the fanservice.
Words.
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137717]@Malygon[/url]:
The options are there. I will not say they are exactly 'evenly split' but there are a great many games that allow for you to play a reasonably dressed female character as well as an fanservicey one.
I agree more is better; we shouldn't act like the options aren't already there though.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
@Elin Berserker: Yes, a female friend of mine does so too. But is that really ok? Is that really the only way? Yes one can live with that but is it wrong to simply want more? To want chargens and armor sets that work with everyone? The argument ist not taking stuff away but adding other options.
Derp
over 12 years ago
I think the common confusion with these complaints is that people assume the complainers are upset by something "sexy," when what's actually upsetting is something "sexist." When a female character's worth is centered around her sex appeal, that isn't sexy so much as it is sexist.
Elin Berserker
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137700]@Robofish[/url]: Obviously I'm not, yes. Possibly because my experiences are primarily with common gamers, the masses actually playing games, and not bloggers and ideologues.
Phil
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137666]@StarPilot[/url], I direct your attention to LMFAO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE#t=01m08s
Robofish
over 12 years ago
As for the point that 'fanservice sells' - yes, but for every guy who buys a game because of fanservice there's a girl who decides not to because of it.
And there's the Catch-22: if those girls choose not to buy these games because of fanservice, they're called 'non-gamers' who can't complain.
Robofish
over 12 years ago
@Elin Berserker: Then you're not reading the same complaints as me, because I've read plenty of comments by female gamers complaining about this. In the end, why should they have to play as men if they want to have non-sexualised characters? Why should only us guys get such characters and not them?
Elin Berserker
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137682]@Malygon[/url]: When female gamers don't *want* to play in chainmail bikinis, they, in most cases, play male characters. It's pretty damn common and I've never actually heard someone complain about it. All the complaining I do hear is, invariably, from people who aren't female or aren't gamers.
Not to say a game can never be art. Some teams are actually focused on a full and "legitimate" experience rather than "how i make sell." Dark Souls is a good example.
Dwarfio
over 12 years ago
On a serious note, video games are primarily a business rather than an art. Fan service makes sales go up, so there is fan service. Anyone who doesn't like it might want to try making everyone else stop liking it, too.
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137677]@Runic[/url]:
Regardless of any of your arguments, at the end of the day you're arguing for an unneeded component that is mostly used as a cheap gimmick for sales. Escapism can dwell where it pleases but it becomes problematic when fanservice becomes an industry standard as a substitute for quality
gia
over 12 years ago
holy shit you people talk too much
mechwarrior2
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137677]@runic[/url] "Everyone Else is doing it to" is not an excuse.
Tkun
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137666]@StarPilot[/url]: Maybe, but I don't see the prudes complaining about when the guy is the one being used as fanservice for female players and gay/bi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRq-DMMkwNM
So fanservice with girls is bad but fanservice with guys isn't?
Malygon
over 12 years ago
If there are enough body types that you can play a female character who isn't idealized for a male audience and if there are enough armor sets so that you don't have to wear a chainmail bikini... poof! Problem gone! Want a good example on how to it right? Check out the Saint's Row 2 chargen.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
That's why people don't complain as much about porn games. You know what you get and if you don't want to play that stuff you simply avoid them. But maybe you like the TERA fighting system or the world but when making characters you see that you are being forced to be someone elses fetish material.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
As I wrote about 70 comments down: The argument is not about "sexy" existing in a game it's about being forced onto you if you want to play the game. A character editor that features both the usual made-for-males stuff and either normal or made-for-femalse stuff would be fine for most.
runic
over 12 years ago
about how most movies have attractive actors, or even how the majority of books have fair to attractive, or more so, protagonist. Any media that panders to fantasy at some degree will be influenced by those fantasy and reflect it instead of reality.
Runic
over 12 years ago
the biggest appeal of games in the first place, the interactive escape and capacity to full immerse yourself in some fantasy, just because the fantasies themselves are objectifying both sexes. Part of gaming is about story telling, yes, but complaining about big boobs in gaming is like complaining
Runic
over 12 years ago
-cont- is so engrained in our culture to begin with. Last time you saw a new property with a fat, overweight bald guy instead of an idealized male? Games could stop being about self inserting into a fantasy, though that is one of the points of the media, isn't it? Seems kinda odd to complain about
Meowmix
over 12 years ago
Also, something to note here. People complain including sexy stuff into video games. But people don't complain as much about PORN GAMES, yes there's an actual difference between the two.
Why is that? Is it because Porn games are more upfront and honest about itself? dunno.
Dwarfio
over 12 years ago
Speaking of all this, when's the last time you did some rule34, Jo? Come on buddyboy.
Runic
over 12 years ago
Looking at men characters now, you see a lot of idealized guys pandering to the male demographic of what they would want to be. So you have a media influenced by male fantasy of what they want to be and what they want women to be. It cuts both ways, just that people ignore the second half because it
StarPilot
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137660]@Huddahudda[/url]: You mean Second Life? No thanks.
Meowmix
over 12 years ago
I don't blame the developers or publishers for including sexy stuff in their games. Clearly they know what their demographics are and want to make as much money as possible as their skill and talent allows them.
If I knew including sexy shit in my games would be profitable, I'd do the same thing.
Runic
over 12 years ago
"no longer a reader" you weren't much of a reader to begin with if you failed to grasp what he was saying here. It isn't that games are about showing off women, it is just that having scantily clad women is not a point to bitch about in the media as an art, not when every other media uses them.
Some Guy
over 12 years ago
On the off chance that you're reading Jo, I am that guy. I enjoy naked and scantily clad ladies as much as the next guy, but fanservice for its own sake can really compromise a game trying to tell a serious story. Remember ME2 when suddenly Miranda's ass is in your face for no reason? Fkn char limit
Huddahudda
over 12 years ago
Why not just make a porn MMO, with four factions: the Prudes, the Hardcores, the Cockteasers, and the BSDMers. PVP combat shall be replaced with rape combat, it's rape or be raped in this world. Loot and gold coins shall be replaced with sex toys(or chastity belts) and condoms shall be the currency.
Pinkie Spy
over 12 years ago
The line's really where a female character stops being anything other than some digital skank there to show skin.
Travel back in the day (not way back, just back) and imagine jade without the jacket, shorts, and a smaller shirt. That's... a less interesting character.
The14th
over 12 years ago
More like it's hard enough to get more girl gamers without female characters looking like sex bombs (which by relation makes us look like desperate horny losers). We gotta pick here, either make female characters be hot AND have depth or make the male characters just as exploitive (see jrpgs).
Dehnus
over 12 years ago
Then why can't the male gamers wear such things then? Since then people start to whine and moan about it. I don't mean to say you can't I just find it funny that only women are wearing very skimpy stuff.
Maybe women and Gay men also want to look at something nice?
Arrogant Jackass
over 12 years ago
@no longer a reader: You'll be back tomorrow. Or worst case scenario, Monday.
Bob
over 12 years ago
The problem is when your ENTIRE GAME is shit and devotes all it's advertising to how sexy the female characters are.
Also, I thought that guy was singing Hellfire.
Person
over 12 years ago
Background characters that dress like that are okay, but when it's the main character, he's right: you can't take it seriously.
Example - imagine playing through the entire Metroid Prime trilogy wearing nothing but a high-tech bikini and six-inch heels. No one will take that seriously.
Yes
over 12 years ago
I completely agree. Those are video games, set in fantasy, imaginary worlds, created for entertainment!
Stop being prude, and saying stuff like "it is objectifying women", it is just stupid.
My wife typically loves it when her characters are sexy, she particularly enjoyed Tera and Aion for this.
When I think about it...
over 12 years ago
Using Tera as an example... it isn't like your armor is anything but for show. I mean, is a suit of plate mail REALLY going to protect you from a weapon that is 10x your size?
Not really. The magic behind your armor is far more important then what your armor actually looks like...
Tue
over 12 years ago
While it may be true that females are portraied in that way in games - they certainly also are in pretty much every other media. Its nothing special to do with games - just a matter of selling things, and it goes the other way around with men too when selling to women. Men just dont bitch about it.
Gamesman
over 12 years ago
because it's the story that I want not the glossy pinups. But if that option was available the shitstorm from the puritans would be epic. Hot coffee. nuff said
Brainwright
over 12 years ago
Given how much society drives the sexual culture, some people can just be sick of the common, tasteless displays. I have a right to be sick of it, don't I?
Gamesman
over 12 years ago
I think a lot of the fanservice is just lame. Instead of offering options for intimate social interaction and/or sex and nudity they add cheesy ridiculous armor/clothing. If I want to see nude game characters there is usually a patch. I would rather seduce and/or rape the npc cont
no longer a reader
over 12 years ago
Haha, those backwards people with their religion and moral codes! Why don't they get with the times? Games aren't about objectives or mechanics anymore, they're about showing off digital women! If you don't like that, you're either sanctimonious or naïve!
</sarcasm>
...Lost a reader here.
Tridus
over 12 years ago
There's a fairly substantial difference between having erotic stuff in a game and having entire genres where women don't exist except as trussed up sex objects.
Anon E Mouse
over 12 years ago
...Yep, still thinks this is the Orb of Yaoi.
JackDesert
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137556]@kaibamon[/url]: actually it just proves how skilled women are in combat. Being able to force the opponent's strikes to the little bits of metal that they wear as opposed to men who are so clumsy that they need more armor to stay alive.
Nara
over 12 years ago
The point is not about fanservice, not a lot of people actually care about proper fanservice. The problem is that women are being objectified in video games. They're not characters anymore, they're just boobs, and that's EXTREMELY offensive.
Electric Pope
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137592]@lefiath[/url]
Hah, I was actually thinking of The Witcher when I mentioned tasteful sex scenes. There's a game where you can pay for a prostitute and get a sex scene with full on nudity, all while Geralt's girlfriend is in the same building, and yet it's far less problematic than Bioware relationships.
Tim
over 12 years ago
Hey, erotic is fine, it's the idiocy of the pandering that turns me off. The toy doll women that serve as a money magnet for idiot teens (or more accurately, their parents' money). It breaks the flow because you see how cheap and transparent the ploy is. I prefer sophistication from my porn too.
Vercalos
over 12 years ago
I will openly admit to being a pervert at times, but honestly I do have to agree with the sentiment provided by the comic. Sometimes, too much is too much... Fleshy bits are alluring, but if you're exposed to it too much it loses it's allure.
Robofish
over 12 years ago
You know Jo, at least a few of the people complaining about excessive fanservice in games are actually female themselves, and simply want to be able to play a character they can identify with without having to look like a stripper.
Kriss1989
over 12 years ago
people to objects to be drooled over, then I get offended. That's going too far to cover your ass on this shit game your produced.
Yes your comic features this stuff, but again I don't take it seriously. Here, it's comedy. In AAA games, it's often cheap pandering and distraction.
Kriss1989
over 12 years ago
good characters, and gameplay and mechanics matching story and tone. That's not a lot to ask for. But when you try to cover up a lack of one of those things with fancy graphics, gratuitous violence, or bad fanfic style writing, I basically ignore it. When you try to cover it up by reducing cont.
Green45
over 12 years ago
The issue is rather that it's unfair eroticism. You see ladies in games dressed up as fanservice in skimpy clothes, but you don't see dudes wearing shorts tight enough that you can see the veins in their dick through it.
The issue is misogynism, not sex.
Kriss1989
over 12 years ago
Lets not forget, most of those aren't characters. They are slabs of scantily dressed meat meant as eyecandy for horny teens. It's stuff like this *points to other comments below* that makes me not take most games seriously. A game really needs to work to make me take it seriously. Good story, cont.
Galdon
over 12 years ago
What is worse is when you see a banner ad for a game with a scantly clad woman, and the game is text based.
Or worse yet, I literally actually saw a game advertising it's self as a roman orgy. What the hell game advertisers?
Some Guy
over 12 years ago
I'll be the first to admit that the banner ads advertising games with scantily clad, big breasted women immediately catch my eye.
But its the rare banner ad featuring practically dressed women with realistic figures that make me actually want to click on it. Those usually have GOOD game play.
Doctor Moustache
over 12 years ago
The problem I have with fanservice games that don't have any real gameplay or story in them is that they don't go all the way.
It's like they just enough steps to get to the "+18" rating and then stopped instead of taking the full advantage of it.
They wimped out though the line was crossed.
lefiath
over 12 years ago
Unfortunately, that also requires some actual effort, and it's much easier to just produce some "sexy" armor with high heels (perfect for combat) that's completely ridiculous. I have nothing against against erotica, but it has it's place and time. Anything else is just silly.
lefiath
over 12 years ago
Take Witcher 2 for example - this game does it right. Heroes or characters doesn't dress like clowns or sluts, and there are some really sexy scenes that actually fit into story. That's how you make something to look good and mature.
Shadow12000
over 12 years ago
@Electric Pope:
No we just learn that too many people are only saying things like that to try and feel superior, but not everyone. I'll admit that the "sex sells" thing needs to tone down already, but nobody's saying it needs to stop. Most stinks involving games are just people bitching to bitch.
Merlynn
over 12 years ago
Ironically,I've been around porn so long,I no longer care about looks. I now seek female companionship based on how good a person the woman is. Needless to say,I'm still single.
Lafazar
over 12 years ago
The problem is not that there is nudity and sexy outfits and what have you at all. That's just fine. The problem is that there is barely anything else or barely anything without it. The problem is not about freedom vs restriction, the problem is about variety vs monoculture.
Electric Pope
over 12 years ago
And yet I will also say that tasteful nudity, even sex scenes, are perfectly fine and good!
And, and, I will admit, just this once, that I have a rather large rule 34 folder, which I do not find distasteful. Clearly I am just being ultra-conservative though.
Electric Pope
over 12 years ago
Great, so in todays nerfnow we learn that the only options are misogynist and prude, and conclude that the former is undoubtedly the preferable option.
Guys, I am offended by the depictions of women in videogames (and comics, but that's another story). "I mad".
well yea
over 12 years ago
Often feel offended by it for many reasons.
They treat us like undemanding pubescent children who prefer boobs over realism, they are kinda right, because the idiot casual gamer became the major audience
Luckily for every TERA/Dollhouse is a Guildwars/Legend of Korra/Game of Thrones
Rincewind
over 12 years ago
And this whole thing reminds me to the recently released Loren The Amazon Princess.
You have the option to everyone (yeah, that included the males) to use skimpy clothes or dress more... conservative.
Rincewind
over 12 years ago
Fantasy, where girls uses chainmail bikinis and men uses only loincloths. Fanservice for everyone!!
Sarasvati
over 12 years ago
Likewise, when there's a prideful woman who dresses like a slut, it becomes inconsistent.
And as a result, the exotic dancer becomes boring because everyone else dresses like an exotic dancer.
Sarasvati
over 12 years ago
I couldn't give two shits about objectification.
What I care about is how sluttiness usually wrecks the atmosphere. When the tank female in a fantasy setting wears less and less armor and clothing the more her defense levels up, I can't get any sensation of physical danger from the enemies.
Kaja Rainbow
over 12 years ago
So, I guess I've just gotten tired of this comic. There's all that there's to say about it. It's just another item in the constant barrage of messages that women should look hot and that anyone arguing for, say, other representations of women is just butthurt. So, farewell.
Kaja Rainbow
over 12 years ago
It doesn't seem like Jo gets the point, and while a decent of the readers seem to get the point, those that don't just don't seem to be changed much by arguments over it.
Kaja Rainbow
over 12 years ago
It isn't just the fanservice, it's the prevalence of representation of women as objects to be lusted after, that sends the message that this is women's role in those works.
Kaja Rainbow
over 12 years ago
However, I got tired of this kind of thing. Eventually, it really wore on me that there isn't any role for women that doesn't feature fanservice. And editorial comics like this that miss the whole point of what people've been arguing about.
Kaja Rainbow
over 12 years ago
You know, I started reading Jo's comics because of the cuteness (the Zerg-tans and such). The fanservice didn't really appeal to me that much, but it didn't keep me from reading.
Wraithy
over 12 years ago
Look, I love the female form just as much as the next 18-35 year old adult male, but there's a difference between a female character looking hot and a female character clearly dressed up as a piece of meat to be lusted after. Those that dislike fanservice are talking about the latter.
Kitsune Inari
over 12 years ago
> I pity the fool who gets deeply offended by anything erotic ...]
Fixed.
kaibamon
over 12 years ago
Still it's interesting when you think that in a game,a thong and a a few plates here and there protect a woman better than a full plate armor like a male uses,and I guess the more you level up the bigger you're breast become for more armor.or that you're nipples get harder and boobs firmer
Rain Harper
over 12 years ago
The voice of Viconia (non Eng. here)used to give me a boner. The awfully made plastic dolls' sex scenes does not, be it ME or DA series.
Kazmohdim
over 12 years ago
I highly doubt Jo's comics would be successful if it wasn't for random flashes of Engi-tan's underwear.
Kazmohdim
over 12 years ago
Sex sells. Jo knows this well.
BulletMagnet
over 12 years ago
A realistically-proportioned woman in full-fledged plate armor can be much, much sexier than a huge-titted toothpick in a chainmail bikini.
...And don't get me started on women in tactical gear. <3
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
@Zero-00:
"with a god complex"
A "god complex" has nothing to do with one's opinion on sexuality, it's a form of egotism in reference to one's belief in regards to their own supposed un-falsifiability (I.E. claiming anyone with a problem with fan-service has a god-complex).
Wisknort
over 12 years ago
Missing the inevitable "OP can't inb4".
Daakun
over 12 years ago
Erotic I get, but sometime you want to see a female character NOT played up for sex sales.
Vincent
over 12 years ago
@Zero-00: Sure it wasn't because of your charming personality? ;)
Turkashi
over 12 years ago
since history began, women were always seen as object. There is no way to stop this, this isn't not only human anture, this is how the biological thing works.
So... here with the bikini wearing zombie killerz!!
Actually...
over 12 years ago
It's OK as long as both guys and gals wear skimpy outfits, but not when only girls wear that while guys get normal armour. All or nothing, see? That's my philosophy.
Zero-00
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137527]@Cramps[/url]: it's based on past experience, some of them were very vocal when I was playing a game, and others were jumping down my throat with a crucifix
Kiikun
over 12 years ago
Hmm... comic is susspiciously on topic to a recent video with Pause and his girlie.... You a fan of PauseUnpause jo?
Mikael
over 12 years ago
I like fanservice. I do agree there should be an option to wear skimpy and less skimpy outfits for both genders though just for the variety, neither should be left out, though.
Cramps
over 12 years ago
@Zero-00: you sound like a person who
"Judges people faster the less you know them"
they can't be the ONLY people.
but what would I know?
Autunite
over 12 years ago
The skimpiness normally doesn't bug me. I just like people wearing armour that would actually protect them in a fight. That why I like TES series.
Zero-00
over 12 years ago
honestly the only people who I see get offended by fanservice are usually people of the older generation, those with a god complex cause they think anything perverse is unpure. now people who get offended by games that are nothing but cheap fanservice are a whole different group
StarPilot
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137508]@Anon[/url]: I was thinking more along the lines of this.
http://dothack.wikia.com/wiki/Hiiragi
http://dothack.wikia.com/wiki/Endrance
AEIOU
over 12 years ago
Hilarious to see people saying this about Dragon's Crown when it is both male and female facing fan service. When women gets hit by it, that's when panel 2 happens, but those people tend to ignore when males are being stereotyped.
Mouse
over 12 years ago
Games are like any other media. Do bad cheesy action movies with half-naked supermodels prevent people from taking movies seriously?
Tacky
over 12 years ago
Reminds me of Judge Claude Frolo, from the Hunchback of Notre Dame alittle bit.
Cramps
over 12 years ago
I don't care if they put big boobs in as long as I can scale them down for my own sexy preferences.
I don't care if they put skimpy outfits in as long as my female tank is armoured up.
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
No one, I repeat, no one will give two shits about tits as long as the character is well developed and well represented visually, which in games is rarely the case and that's why some people complain.
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
In regards to representation a lot of it stems from the art where nearly any piece of concept art of a male can tell his entire back-story (using a bit of visual analysis)where as for females it's just to show off their bodies which for a CHARACTER is terrible when it's the majority.
Collin
over 12 years ago
A little fanservice can be nice.
There's also a point where it becomes ridiculous. And I lose respect for games once they cross that line.
MissedthePoint
over 12 years ago
I'm a guy and love big bouncy tits and a nice round ass, that being said, you missed the point entirely because it's not about tits, it's about content and representation. Fan-service is unneeded & one problem some developers have is focusing to much on fan-service & not enough on the actual game...
Anon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137473]@StarPilot[/url]: Zangief, Blanka, Kratos and of course, CHO ANIKI!!!
Memories
over 12 years ago
I got super excited when I first played Demons Souls. Not because it was a good game, or that I heard a lot about it. But because my heavily armored female character looked like she was wearing a real suit of armor.
Truly awesome.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137481]@TheBaron87[/url]: That being said, of course there are extremists in every movement and the feminist-movement isn't any different.
Seriously
over 12 years ago
God damn if someone wasn't ever in a position to comment on this it'd be you, Nerfnow. Good job.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137481]@TheBaron87[/url]: And really, what about the relationship thing? Feminists aren't against sex. They are against the objectification of women. There's a difference between a women in, say, a movie simply being sexy and the camera focusing on her sexual attributes to suit a male audience.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137481]@TheBaron87[/url]: And that's the difference, the existence of sexy or erotic outfits and body options or being forced to wear these outfits and to take these options. Most feminists are happy if they aren't forced into these options.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137481]@TheBaron87[/url]: They argument that the character generation is only tailored to suit male power fantasies when creating a male character and male sexual fantasies when creating a female one. They feel unwelcome since the character generator simply wasn't made with females in mind.
Malygon
over 12 years ago
[url=#user_comment_137481]@TheBaron87[/url]: Interestingly enough one of the feminist arguments against games like Tera Online isn't the fact that erotic female characters exist in the game but rather that you yourself are unable to play a non-erotic female so that you automatically become someone elses fetish material.
tasslac
over 12 years ago
hey, proper armor can be plenty sexy too... and i prefer it when my ladies are properly attired for the environment they are in. even if the skimpy and skin tight make for nice scenery
Zhen
over 12 years ago
Girls in full and practical armor. Aw, yeah. That's my fetish.
Sperium 3000
over 12 years ago
The problem, Jo, is that girls in skimpy outfits kinda lose their charm when every single girl out there is wearing skimpy outfits all the freaking time. The same thing happen in games, at least to me.
TheBaron87
over 12 years ago
I get really annoyed when feminists condemn female characters for being erotic whether they have any personality or not. Sex isn't the only thing men want in a relationship, but it is ONE OF the things they want. It would be a bad relationship if that was it, but it would also suck if it's missing.
Frankless
over 12 years ago
It has nothing to do with being the sole protectorate of what's "Wholesome", but garbage games use fanservice in place for quality because it's much easier to make an armored bra than it is to make a compelling story. Not at all surprising the BR can't see past his own heauehaeing to think about why
>:D
over 12 years ago
I wear skimpy outfits.
Meowmix
over 12 years ago
Wait, so is the bald guy showing/telling his real self in both panels?
StarPilot
over 12 years ago
Yeah, why can't men be in skimpy outfits too? It's only fair.
fezzam
over 12 years ago
Its only an island, if you look at it from the water.
Brandorr
over 12 years ago
People want to be offended. There are people who perceive themselves as such great gods that if they are offended by something, they must take it upon themselves to make sure everybody sees that it is as wrong as possible. Most of these people are far from intelligent.
Tkun
over 12 years ago
Where is tsundere gamer?
Twibbit
over 12 years ago
Is this how you actually view opinions that conflict with your own?
Stevebat
over 12 years ago
I was not expecting a Notre Dame reference. Well played Jo
Reese
over 12 years ago
But what does that make people who don't think Charr females in Guildwars 2 need to have boobs, but are fine with the human-like women having them?
Peddie
over 12 years ago
Well you know, there is sexy, and there is slutty. Bayonetta is sexy, TERA's designs are just slutty.
Jaymie
over 12 years ago
Hell, at least Tera's kind of even on the male/female fanservice. the problem comes when the women are mostly fetishized, without much character, compared to the men and the power fantasies.
cybernetic
over 12 years ago
COUNTERPOINT:
http://www.harkavagrant.com/
Derpkerp
over 12 years ago
No, that's not really how that works. It's awkward to see huge breasts when you just want to play a game. Keep games for gaming and porn for fapping
Godot
over 12 years ago
o/` Beata Maria, you know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud...
Beata Maria, you know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmn9iH6bHJc
Harbinger of Truth
over 12 years ago
...But fanservice is wholly unnecessary and only caters to horny 15 year olds.
Blu soldier
over 12 years ago
I only make fun of Elins in Tera and the nipple tape armor in Queens Blade Online.
Anchick
over 12 years ago
Squidward was a prototype for this strip
Alecburn
over 12 years ago
*sniffle* but its true and im not even that narcissitic
