Bullshit. Loot Boxes aren't "a cherry on top." They're shit to get you to spend extra money on the game. No matter how "noninvasive" they make them, they're still asking you to spend money on them.

FAKE, D.Va can't heal !

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/1493

asgth th, eh, wrong choice of a words - basically, what I meant is that things like these bring a spoiled, sour taste to the "between-the-missions" part of the game. It's like a quick jab in the groin between the missions - even if the missions are fun, that jab rarely is.

@Humanoid Mimisippo: how exactly does it ruin the meta game? the meta game consists of spesific ways to play the game, NOT what cosmetics/taunts/victory poses/sprays/player icons/voice lines you should use

Beastwolf, nobody's smarter than Jim F. Sterling, son, you can only hope to be CLOSE to his levels of smartness. It's like saying "your body temperature is lower than the Sun's", no kidding?

Also, since the only reason to level are the cosmetics - it ruins the METAgame, which is bad enough.

if it doesn't change gameplay whatsoever, sure go ahead and add some pay-to-gamble cosmetics and such, but leave equipment and progression out of the paywall. Blizzard hit almost as close to the bull's-eye as you can without splitting someone else's arrow. (insert archery reference and/or pun)

Anyway, it doenst Ruin the game, it just ruins pacing a bit. I mean imagine in dota at the end of a match you could get some trinket that lets your charactor change color, and instead of getting that you get a bunch of trinkets that change 1 word the charactor says for a command, at random.

Seems you arent smarter than Jim Fucking Sterling, son.

It's gambling. Gambling isn't legal in most states. You can't gamble money for money. You can't gamble money for, say, a car or other prizes like that. Why is it legal if you gamble real money for digital items that have no inherent value? Because it's more obviously a scam in the first place?

Andy Janson, stuff like "crypt for 20$" IS pure BS. Each time a game developer tries to use a shoddy, dirty way of earning a quick buck, they SHOULD be called out on it. If Netherrealms WASN'T called out on this kind of thing, it's a real shame. Players need to fight against this kind of things.

People complaining about the in game store for crates are just being silly. Buying crates is like when any other video game has a way to pay to skip the requirement of unlocking things. Where were all the complaints about MKX letting you unlock the crypt for 20 bucks?

No one's ever satisfied with loot systems on any game. Most people just want overpowered gear spoon-fed to them. If the loot has some RNG element where less valuable items are more common, all they want is for the rarest items to be extremely common. That flies in the face of basic game design.

...(cash-only cosmetics) without paying a PENNY, yet it's also REALLY easy to just get platinum (a premium currency that's also easy to trade for with in-game items) with cash and buy anything you need/want. It actually makes it really easy to adapt to whatever your cash situation is.

Romain Castegnaro, not really. Warframe has a fair shop. Nearly anything is obtainable WITHOUT spending IRL cash, but due to grindy nature of the game, it's faster and easier to just outright buy it. There are some players that have obtained EVERYTHING short of Prime Access cosmetics...

A fair shop is way worse i think because it looks nice, you might think it's a good thing and it's pretty addictive too it's some sort of a deal with the devil and i think it's way more frightening.

That's actually funny, because the Nevermore skin was one of the first skins I dropped and the only non-recolour basic (except the pre-order/origins ones)...
But yes, other than, like 3 recolours or so, i mostly get sprays and player icons. At least I got a few emotes/lines/poses too...

The mere existence of this shop is based on capitalising on the weakness of people, it's therefore a pretty honest appraoch for it to be unfair, it's a douchebag with a big "HELLO I'M A DOUCHEBAG" carved on his foreahead, if you go and try to talk to the guy at least you know what's going to happen

I prefer the shop in a prepaid game to be unfair, so it'll punish people for using it, which is a concept i find great, i mean people shouldn't use the shop because there should be no shop in the fist place

Well, it's my bad, i never said it's more fair, i think you're 100% right about the fairness of things. What i said nonetheless is that i prefer this to be unfair because i think it's less atractive this way.

Romain Castegnaro, so let me get it straight - you find it more fair to be punished for wanting in-game content in an already prepaid game than to spend about 5 bucks a month for double grinding power? Not sure if I can agree with that, to be honest.

That's not DAYS of grind for a crate, i mean, it can be days, but it's totally doable in one single day, most people i know are playing more overwatch than that.

Also, I klnow it's a point of view, but i don't think you get crates really slow, i feel like you get them quite fast to be honest, one OW game, both sides included is 10-20mn, the maximum xp requirement is reached at lvl 22 and you need more or less 4-5 games to fill the xp gauge, that's 1h-1h30

Crates are crap, they're based of luck, so if you really want to "cheat" and use real money in the game, you can do it but it's at your own risks, i like that, it's punishment for greediness

That's rough.

You already got to pay for the game, and they had to add a cash shop because it would have been a waist to do otherwise. But the fact that this cash shop is crap, I think it what makes it amazing, boosters are addictive, they ruins the reward system, and worst of all, they're effective

...for DAYS for a new crate. Which means, that at one point you HAVE to buy crates in order to get a CHANCE to get a desirable cosmetic item. And that is REALLY bad, folks.

Linkster C, indeed.

Romain Castegnaro, that's exactly the reason it sucks. The only way to get cosmetics are the crates, and since you get them REALLY slow after a certain level (and since the same cosmetics can REPEAT), you can get only sprays up to the point you have to grind...

It's so abusive that it becomes ridiculous, it's almost punitive. If you really can't wait, fine, you can pay, but you can only pay for the thing everyone can get, that's why i like it this way, it's so bad you don't want to put you money in it, because it won't give you much.

Well, okay, it may be more fair, but is it actually better ? I mean, the thing that i like about the OW shop, is the fact that it sucks, you got the option to pay, and to pay a lot because holy crap it's not cheap, for something you can get for free, and for something that's basically gambling.

Honestly, I think the loot crate thing would of been fine, if every crate included the credits to buy the cosmetics you want. That would of been the best for everyone.

Romain Castegnaro, the model I described is more fair because the player can farm/get anything in the game in a straightforward fashion, and Blizzard makes money by letting players reduce the grind. And yes, it's a better thing than this gambling nonsense.

Well, I understand your point, i agree with the fact that a shop in a paid game is horrible, but i honestly can't understand why is it more fair, and even if i could, is this really a better thing ?

If Blizzard did this, they'd just need to keep making virtual hats along with normal updates so that people won't run out of things to farm for... But sadly, they don't really care how dirty is their quick buck.

And judging by my time in WarFrame and League, there are ALWAYS the players that will buy the boosters just to get stuff 2 times faster, even if farming at half speed is still viable. Some people are too busy to play for several hours nonstop/are in a farming frenzy and want to farm everything asap

Romain Castegnaro, it's abusable for that matter as well, but it's a lot more fair since Blizzard doesn't keep any actual content out of player's reach. If there really NEEDS to be a shop, it should be along THESE lines - thou let's be honest, any IRL shop in a pre-paid game is an atrocious concept.

Also doesn't this kinda ruins the fact that meta-rewards are actually ... well, rewards ? If you can get the same results by doing half the stuff, isn't it lowering the impact of the reward ?

Well, okay, but you get used to thing being like that, and you pay again to get your stuff faster, i'm not affraid of being addicted to gambling my money into crates, but i'm affraid of being addicted to things going fast.

Romain Castegnaro, not really. It works really well for League of Legends - thos boosters don't affect any GAMEPLAY, they just speedup your progress toward meta-rewards, which means they're desirable, but not obligatory. You're basically able to get that in-game item in 3 games instead of 6.

@Humanoid Mimisippo: I can't help but think that selling xp/credit booster would have been way more abusive than selling the exact same crates that you get with levels, becauses it actually changes the way you play/the rewards you get from doing so ...

@Humanoid Mimisippo: Like TF2 but with ingame money? yeah I like that idea. Kinda Like Rainbow Six siege operators

...THAT'd make it more like HS model, without the fact that in HS you grind so that you don't suck (instead of grinding to be pretty). That'd really be acceptable, by today's standards.

You know what'd be a better model? If Blizzard sold not crates, but the exact cosmetic items for in-game cash obtainable just by playing, and sold Credit Boosters for real money. Maybe, cash-for-hats too, but a player should've been able to get at least 1 or 2 cosmetic items per day on his own...

@Humanoid Mimisippo: i suppose you are right in that sense. Though I think we can all agree that the true abuse is the price of games in Russia. I mean 2k seems like too much.

@Humanoid Mimisippo: Is the fact that you can buy crates and only crates the thing that's bothering you ? To be honest i would have been waaaay more bothered by the cash shop seeling XP boosters or credit boosters

Tyler Wang, it's nice that you're not bothered by that. I know that I would be, as well as many other players. If Blizzard just sold XP/credit boosters (both for account only) on their market, I'd find it acceptable, but like this? It's a mechanic that abuses a large portion of the players. Not cool

The game could have been perfectly fine without the option to buy crates, the exact same game, only without this option, and I totally agree with the fact that it's a cheap and easy way to get more money, that's why it would have been stupid not to add the said option.

@Humanoid Mimisippo: Though it sucks that you have to pay that much for a game. Mind you im not sure about currency exchange rates or your wage rate, but 2K still seems a lot to me.

@Humanoid Mimisippo: Umm its just skins. I mean I'm not bothered by it because I don't give a shit about looking pretty. I would buy weapons in tf2 because they weapons in tf2 are actual different weapons (not all of them some are reskins) with different effects. But like I said its your money.

Want to make a cash shop? Either don't charge for the game AT ALL/charge 5$ to weed out most of extra accounts, or sell something else. For example? XP boosters, that allow you to gain your account levels faster, or credit boosters that double the in-game cash you get for your account. That works.

...Blizzard had the most basic common sense not to put characters/weapons into their BS gambling rotation, everyone is praising them for it. You are STILL paying for the thing you've already bought and that by all rights should be yours already. And that is bad.

...it would STILL be an example of a greedy monetizing scheme. Many things AAA industry employs are, it's not limited to just Blizzard - on-disc DLCs, paid costume unlockables, preorders tied with season passes and such. It is just really jarring to me that just because...

Tyler Wang, some game companies translate their prices for our market (most of the companies on Steam), some - don't (Blizzard, Nintendo and such. Btw, even translated prices are pretty high for a normal wage around here). Nonetheless, even if I was living in USA...

I mean, I actually dunno if OW is priced especially high in your country or if AAA games are especially cheap, but the my point is that no matter the price of the game, it would have been stupid not to add a cash shop, and the one in overwatch is far from being an abusive one.

Well actually okay where i come from AAA games are like 60-80 bucks for the basic game without DLCs overwatch is 40 and indie games are 10-20 bucks so i'm pretty impressed that it's not the same everywhere

Sorry if i came off as insulting, or being an asshole, I did not mean to.

Humanoid Mimisippo why is it so explansive in your country? Just keep in mind that I ackownledge this is a diffrence in opinion, and if the gambling part is a dealer breaker for you then I can respect your opinion. It's your money and you can spend it however you want.

...made sorely to play on the gambler part of the community so that they unload their wallets right into Blizzard's pockets. I repeat, it WOULD've been acceptable in a free-to-play game, but IT IS NOT a free-to-play game.

...and DEFINETLY no "extra-pay-gambles", regardless of whenever they're for characters, weapons, or sound effects and sprays. The fact that Blizzard has players paying for gambling in an already pre-paid game IS an abusive mechanic by definition - it's a psychological trick...

Tyler Wang, OW costs 2k rub. The same price as the new Doom, Dishonored 2, or TW Warhammer. That's the price of AAA game, for all purposes. And no, my logic is sound. "If I've paid a full, and a pretty high price for the game, I should own EVERYTHING in it". No "extra-pay-unlockables"...

By your logic, a thief is entitled to sue the place he stole from because they temped him by having the stuff there, even though there was nothing to force he to steal other than his own impluse.

... I agree with the fact that you gotta pay the game and then that you CAN pay for cosmectics, but Blizzard, they had to add a real money shop, I mean it would have been pretty stupid to do otherwise, for the player, it's an optional way to use his spare money ...

Also Humanoid Mimisippo you just hit it on the head. It is the players who want to buy loot crates of their own free will. There is nothing in OW that forces you to buy OW other than your own impluses, and if you can't control yourself, then thats your own damn fault.

VenomBHz please explain to me how selling items that has no effect on gameplay is abusive.

Just let me remind you that TF2's F2P system was a lot worst where certain freatures of the game (like trading) were restricted to you unless you bought at least one item. and before you go on about how tf2 is free, the ingame shop was there before it went F2P

Just look at total warhammer, fallout 4, battleborn. But hey, if you dont OW, thats perfectly fine, buy whatever you think is worth it.

Also all gameplay affecting updates for OW are free like characters and maps, unlike battleborn, where they are planning on selling you single player DLC. And plus the price of games has gone up, 50 is no longer the standard for AAA games

Humanoid Mimisippo I still don't get why you're complaining.I mean your logic is just like a murder pleading not guilty because "it wasn't my fault I killed him, he jsut looks so damn killable".

Romain Castegnaro, I live in Russia. Here, the basic edition of the game costs 2k of rubles. That's the price of a pre-order of a AAA title like Dishonored 2 and such, and it's only SLIGHTLY cheaper than imported PS4/XBone games.

...really needs to start calling companies on their BS when it sees one. This? Clearly BS.

...so "you don't HAVE to buy it" is NO excuse. It's a AAA game with microtransactions, and for that reason alone, it has BS monetization mechanics. I'm not saying ANYTHING about the gameplay, it MAY be good, regardless of how stupidly greedy Blizzard is, but the gaming community...

@Romain Castegnaro, F2P games like Team Fortress 2 and Warframe EXIST on "pay-2-speedup" and "pay-to-be-pretty", because the urge to style yourself in at least somewhat good multiplayer game is SO strong in most players that just selling hats is enough to both support your servers AND get profits...

@Humanoid Mimisippo: I'm with you. Blizzard practices are being abusive for some time now, and I stopped playing their games because of that. People that think that's fine are either already addicted or are blizzard bitches.

... And the game is 40 bucks, where is that amazing place you're living in where AAA are games usually cheaper than that ? I mean, okay there are some you can get for less, but it's not actually THAT much for a not indie game ...

... I mean, the fact that you can buy lootcrates, it's totally up to you, there's nothing in the shop that's "money exclusive" you can only buy crates and they're the same crates you get from leveling up, wich means you can just pay the game itself and that's all ...

@ Humanoid Mimisippo : Well sir, if I understand you point correctly, you whole problem with the game is that you got to pay for the game itself and also cosmetics and it's totally fine, but there's one thing about this that bothers me quite a lot. You don't actually got to pay for cosmetics AT ALL

...Basically, it wouldn't be bad that the only thing you need to pay for are cosmetics - HS could really use that kind of commercial balance - but Blizzard should've used EITHER the "pay-to-gamble" model, or "pay-to-play", not BOTH. ATM, it's as much of BS as on-disc/day 1/horse armor DLCs.

...and yet, they're ALSO asking for cash to GAMBLE for cosmetic items. And with the fact that you're getting lootcrates at levelups (which you achieve slower and slower over time), they're basically trying to make you addicted, so that they can suck additional cash out of your wallet...

...if it wasn't for the fact that Blizzard wants to eat the cake AND have someone else's slice as well. They're ALREADY asking for more cash upfront, than most AAA developers for their full games. For that price, EVERYTHING that's in the game should be free of additional charge...

Tyler Wang, I dislike Blizzard overall, and Overwatch is an example why - as much as they're able to polish a game, they spend their efforts on some cheap and greedy tactics conceived solely to drain you out of your cash. Like I said, I wouldn't have any particular reason to hate Overwatch...

If it wasn't for the second panel, I would have assumed Joe had a guest artist again.

Nothing forces you to buy loot crates, AND if you feel that you have to look pretty to enjoy a game, then that's your problem. I mean throughout over watch I only bought one loot crate and that was because I had money left over on the gift card in bought over watch with.

Humanoid Mimisippo, so your problem is that you have to pay for items that has no impact on the game play whatsoever? I mean if you prefer battle born to over watch then good for you, your allowed to have your own opinion but your reason for disliking over watch is stupid.

Are you referring to Jim sterling'silver video jo?

I opened a loot box and it was the bodies of family and friends. (Rare)

Then because of the physiology blow I received I decided to open another and it contained fire. (Common)

I nominate this as the most sourest face ever on Nerf Now!!

...since whatever their new idea is, it's going to be another shameless cashgrab. IF Overwatch was F2P, this "Pay to be pretty" would be a good sport of a mechanic, but let's be honest - people will buy anything made by Blizzard, and Blizzard knows it. I, for one, would rather get Battleborn.

...and despite them failing at common sense in terms of design of some character, it COULD be a really good game in my eyes... If they didn't ask a AAA-game price for it upfront and then ASK FOR EXTRA CASH SO THAT YOU CAN BE PRETTY. This is why I don't bother with Blizzard games anymore...

This game is so Blizzard. They've created a "not-bad" game (judging by the footage, it's a TF2 with more classes, but a decade late), filled it with fanservicey characters (they've basically spent most of the time on lore and disney-esque designs)...

Wait, this game has loot?

True'er Story: I had the devil mercy skin the first lootbox i opened during the beta, my friends where so jaloes

True story. I got the Nevermore skin for Reaper from my second Loot Box in the Beta. If only they hadn't reset the loot...

I'm sorry but no. On this matter AJ and Jim are right. the loot boxes were thrown in as a "progression system" that they could monetize. They may not affect gameplay but they were made during development and each and every person that bought the game also paid for their development.

cherry on a very big cake? try sawdust on a mediocre cake

I believe that he's referring to Angry Joe, here...

Totalbiscuit made a video regarding Angry Joe and Jimquisition's videos about the loot boxes, it's worth checking out.

I don't think they are the worst thing in the world but how long it takes to open and their infrequency, a mediocre create does feel kinda bad (and as I have to exit my game to open them I can't continue the cool game i was having)

@Mac Beth: its pretty easy to tell he's not. Jim spoke about the issues of ingame real money markets for even aesthetic stuff.

While J is talking about someone who complained (exploded) about not getting what they wanted from the random lootbox

@Jarno Diva are my waifu, you scrublord >:P TIL site also supports only up to three photonotes from one person, so I took most delicious parts :P

Some guy having a tantrum over not getting what he wanted here and now.

@istibul: Screw you you need to learn to share!

Are you referring to the Jimquisition by any chance?

I like the fact that boxes work pretty much the same as Hearthstone packs