ABSOOOOOLUTELY

Goodness, not only is the Siege Tank hauling ass to the point of going airborne, but it's moving with the Arclite Cannon deployed! ;)
Siege Tanks in mobile Siege Mode = Fekkin' dead!

But you get people like you who button mash and then when the person just spams grapples you call them "cheap" because you don't know how to beat grapples. You can only button mash. You think you should have the same chance of winning as everyone else with no effort. Instead of crying, learn to win.

You can still have fun if you aren't good. I'm bronze league and I suck. You just have to accept the fact that people better than you will beat you. A worse player should never beat a better player. Button mashing in SF or W+M1 should never win a game. Harder things should be better than easy things

I smell insane amounts of blizzard fanboyism. Fun is not measured by any one person, but its obvious that this game is not intended for people who aren't willing to become elitist themselves. And personally, I don't find excess trial and error losing sprees to be fun. No matter how experienced I get

I mean, there's at least a hundred damn nice maps that comes with Starcraft, but try to get anyone to play even once on a map that's not Temple or Hunters and it's like pulling teeth. Exploring unknown lands, trying new things, playing around, none of that matters as much as breaking 1000 APM.

I've always said the biggest problem with Blizzard's games is the players. Every single one I've ever met or talked to is a hypercompetitive jerk, no one wants to have fun.

How did you people find elitists and addicts in bnet lol. You guys probably played hackers with self-esteem issues =/

But yea, rts is one of those games where you need to learn and think more about the basics before getting to have "fun." (and I loled at how the post button says Troll NOW!!)

Well I'm in the Beta and I can tell you it's not the 8th drone but the tenth. No SC2 strats in sc2.

imo, dwarf fortress is harder than sc

@TEH PHAIL!: Hm, fair enough. And well said. @Robert Weizer: Eh, at that point I had a lot of momentum. Upon re-reading you're not really wrong or hypocritical. [url=#user_comment_27844] @Rusty[/url]: Sorry Halo isn't a national sport, dood. And no, sadly, some people do not learn.

Plus SC2 will have divisions just like it does in beta so the players that just want to make up build orders will be playing against other players that do the same thing. Supposedly there will also be a limit of one user name also to prevent a skilled player from smurfing on lower divisions for fun.

I understand the "noob" comments, hated melee and just played UMS, but really just making a build up and expecting it to work should not work. It is a strategy game your half ass attempt should not be equal to an optimal build order.

What's with all the arguing? If you're going to argue, argue about a game/genre that doesn't suck.

Also, there is nothing wrong with playing RTS casually; if you fail to survive the map, you learn through trial and error, effectively making you a better player, casual or not.

And like you, I was using the Nerf Now commentary section to voice my opinion on an issue that, either by intent or circumstance, was brought up by the strip that we all read.

The Baron87, If they were just competitive about it, they wouldn't be arses about it to. Point blank. Which oddly enough, you made my point all the more clear. As for the five posts, I... found I had more to say on the topic than I thought, and these text fields are short. {continued]

I've got more important things to do then kill my blood pressure and get banned from internet forums over being extremely competitive, that's all.

[url=#user_comment_27630]@Tribalbeat[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27634] @DarkSteele[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27636] @gelugon2105[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27661] @discrider[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27668] @Noob[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27673] @Mewt[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27686] @WLA[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27687] @DK[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27697] @Anonymous[/url]: @Robert Weizer: [url=#user_comment_27733] @Kriztov[/url]: [url=#user_comment_27737] @Shmitz[/url]: ENTIRE TEAM EES BABEES!

@Robert Weizer: Sounds more like a coward with an inferiority complex to me. [url=#user_comment_27734] @Aceofsleep[/url]: Maybe if you stopped giving up every time you saw it and actually learned how to stop it... One step at a time, you don't get to learn the mid game until you figure out the early game.

[url=#user_comment_27774]@Lol[/url]: Amen brother. [url=#user_comment_27727] @Moonj[/url]: He never said anything like that... and there IS a way to connect to opponents of your skill level, it's called noob servers. There are just people who are SUCH noobs, or just disgustingly lazy, that they can't even operate a server list.

@TEH PHAIL!: "I couldn't give a flying fig to..." which is why you made 5 posts about them, right? "somewhere in your RL your the same way, and you're using this virtual world to crush others, just like you've been crushed." And what exactly are you using the Nerf Now comments for?

@TEH PHAIL!: But you do feel the need to whine about it and completely ignore the existence of people interested in honest competition. God forbid somebody be interested in playing the actual game without being an internet bully and terrible person. Way to see black and white there scrub.

[url=#user_comment_27686]@WLA[/url]: They expect you to be good enough to defend yourself and get to the point where you can have huge armies of top level units, because that's a hundred times more fun than two people spending $50 each to watch little 3D models shoot at each other instead of actually playing the game.

@|:: I didn't realize you decided what fun means. [url=#user_comment_27672] @Commander204[/url]: Now see that's just stupid. You at least give everyone a chance to play, no matter how bad they are, or you're never going to have a decent pool of good players to play with. At least you're interested.

[url=#user_comment_27675]@Merc[/url]: Your reaction. We grief until you either man up and learn to defend yourselves or ragequit. Either way, everybody wins. We either get another decent player or one less scrub, and you either improve or move on from a game you never would've been good at with your crappy attitude anyway.

[url=#user_comment_27673]@Mewt[/url]: And how exactly would you propose people go about "testing" the game? Stop and think (if you're capable) for a few seconds about what you're saying. You want to play, but totally ignore game mechanics. You want to balance test without anybody playing seriously. Get a clue.

This is the reason I only play SC for its single player story.

Online is mostly full of elitist, hardcore addicts.

[url=#user_comment_27662]@LordJiro[/url]: Maybe if you didn't cheat and actually played the game... [url=#user_comment_27668] @Noob[/url]: And? I take it you're one of those people whose worth as a person is directly correlated to the balance in their bank account?

[url=#user_comment_27661]@discrider[/url]: And you give up after a few games, playing against people who have played hundreds or thousands. It's not the strat, it's the skill, and you only get that through effort. You're effectively saying that you just want to get on a bike, pedal, and be able to compete with Lance Armstrong.

[url=#user_comment_27645]@LoLAdrian[/url]: Only 1v1 counts, try again. [url=#user_comment_27650] @Saber152[/url]: More silly serious != fun talk. @Winged Cat: And if they weren't such cowards and babies they would get better. Casual gamers don't need mentors, they need a willingness to practice, a basic grasp of logic, and a spine.

[url=#user_comment_27727]@Moonj[/url]: Then you've never played Starcraft 2, and neither has Jo as there should be nothing to complain about. Just like TF2, there are separated ladder brackets in Starcraft 2 that are constructed specifically to match you with people of your level of play. You wont find pros unless u look for them

@Explain NOW!!: Two good, evenly matched, players play a game. Each chooses to either rush, or defend against an expected rush. Neither player gets a decisive advantage immediately, so the game goes on. Between good players, it is EXTREMELY rare for a game to end with the first rush.

If others can't beat it either, then its overpowered and will be patched (because Blizzard has awesome support).

[url=#user_comment_27737]@Shmitz[/url]: Here is the great thing: Worst case scenario, you just copy the immortal rush! Anything he can do, you can do. So you go and try it, and then you find that you are still getting beat. So you watch the replay, and bam, you've found your counter. This shouldn't take you four days. (continued)

Care to explain this 'competition'...NOW!!

Wow. These comments suck. No one knows what competition is.

Incidentally this is why I vastly prefer turn-based strategy to real time.

[url=#user_comment_27704]@Derek[/url] Look at blitzkrieg in chess. There's your rush. Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of chess rules can figure out there are half a dozen ways to easily prevent it. Now look at SC2. I saw a video where a guy and his friend took 4 DAYS trying to figure out a SINGLE way to counter an immortal rush.

and this is why I don't play starcraft :)
the game is good, has good concept, is fun.
but when you DO play it, then it gets boring :P

This is the main reason I prefer to play against people I know instead of random people because of the rushing... Really A game is supposed to be fun, what is fun about getting rushed in the beginning of a game? I haven't played SC much because of this though, mainly I stick to TF2 now a days anyway

Damn, these SC fans are lame.

I'm in the beta... and this comic made me laugh out loud.

Also, god forbid you try and make your own strategy, realizing the 2 drone extractor trick is just 100000000x worse than the 1 drone extractor trick ;/

However, I consider myself a lot more competent at beatemups and stuff like Metal Slug and Contra. I prefer cooperative gameplay, not competitive gameplay that turns people into jerks with a superiority complex. That aside, I've done some pretty "hardcore" shit to overpower stuff on RPGs!

After years of observation, I think the casual/hardcore division is bunk bullshit. I don't play many fighting games, so when I do, I get trounced. Usually I don't mind (unless it's SF3, I don't care for SF3) and just keep playing. Especially if it's KoF. Starcraft was unfun last time I tried it.

[url=#user_comment_27718]@Lol[/url]: You assume that a game can only have one level of play. In tf2 for example there are "pro" servers and there are servers for casual players. The game doesn't necessarily need to be changed but how the players connect to opponents at their skill level may need changed instead.

I'm a casual SC player and even I know what APM means.

Also why do people always recite WM1?
It's wholly ineffective against anyone with 2 brain cells.
M1+M2 Demoman winbomb spam on the other hand is EVEN easier AND about 1000000% more effective.

Nerfnow .... SERIOUS BUSINESS!

So by the same logic, are you going to ask that you add a form of W+M1 to Chess now? Sure the game is accessible, but you want an EASY mode that is EFFECTIVE. There is your folly, and I suggest you go back to Tonka Toys if you can't handle playing any game (not just Starcraft) like a man. Suck it up

Seriously, I don't understand why casual players want to drop all games with high skill ceilings to their level. I'm all for making games accessible, but to expect that a casual can play on even footing with an experienced hardcore professional is absurd. Play against a chessmaster, and you lose.

stress release by doing unto other what has been done to you. And you ask why we whine? Because we don't need to repress others when its done to us, to make ourselves feel bigger.

we play for fun. So yeah, when someone comes stompping on our "sand castle" we're going to be upset and try and do something about it. But when we do, you pissers feel threatend, and so, threaten the casual gamers with greater virtual violence to shut us up, so you can have your ...

The other players being the losers, and whinning about losing. But, truth be told, somewhere in your RL your the same way, and you're using this virtual world to crush others, just like you've been crushed. We casual gamers, don't play to beat up others to make ourselves feel better...

So, it comes down to the two sides, the F'ers that are trying to prove their size by demanding a nuke'em button to beat down those weaker than them, to make them feel better. And those that just play to have something to do, but can't because of said bully style players. Baw all you want about...

And only those that are smaller than them. Yeah, yeah, "only an idiot would attack something bigger!" Who said bigger? Why not pick on someone your own size? Why? Because you're afraid you'll lose, and thats just another thing to add to your phobias that lead you to being the bully. Whatever...

One side shouts "SPAM! NUKES!" (ad infinitum) the other side cries "NO DEFENSES!" etc., etc. Personally, I'm a casual gamer, I couldn't give a flying fig to the ADD afflicted individuals that forgot their medication, and/or the bullies that much rather trounce anything that moves, ...

Course a casual gamer would find the custom maps settings and just play that. Custom map settings. Course I'm mostly a turn based strategy gamer.

This is why I play PatchCon instead of a multiplayer RTS. >_>

(+1 for Touhou)

And at the dress comment, I always thought of it as an over sized t-shirt that the zergling's were wearing.

Little kids can get away wearing stuff like that be they boy or girl and often it's considered "cute".

Rushing in an RTS is the same as spawn camping in TF2: A legitimate strategy that only works if you're opponent is completely outclassed.

When you guys play chess, do you not allow captures until the first ten moves are over?

I don't get how people can be fine with FPSs, play them seriously and generally not whine too much when they get beat, but as soon they touch an RTS they become complete n00bs. God forbid someone try to actually win. No no, obviously thats not the point of RTS.

I would pay for a zergling-tan plushie

I only played StarCraft once, with two friends of mine, and I almost won. (got lucky and attacked them when they had just had an all-out war)

and this is why I don't play Starcraft online.

I only play against the CPU or with friends I know.

If you suck at Starcraft, but want to play it casually, just do your automatches. You'll be put in either the copper, silver, gold or platinum skill brackets, and you'll be consistently automatched with people of your own level. You can climb to a higher bracket if you do well.

All too true, and all too sad. I tried my hand at StarCraft, now I know just to stay away. I've watched my cousin, one of the leaders of a SC Clan, break out his strategy on dial-up when he's used to high speed and wipe out his opponents in under ten minutes. Its a work of art, but unrealistic forme

I love NerfNow but the spelling is going awry lately. Might I suggest you have a friend proof-read comics before release? For example the second panel should read "...neither does he watch pro replays..."

That said, I totally agree with the sentiment. With RTS games in general actually.

HEY GAIZ LIKE I PLAY THIS GAME FOR LIKE AS IF MY LIFE DEPINEDED ON IT BECAUSE LIKE... I DO EET BECAUSE LIKE THE NOOB CHICKS WILL TOTALLY BLOW ME AND I"D BE TOTALLY A MAN WHORE AND ALL AND LIKE MAKE THE MONEY THAT YOU NEVER WILL BY PLAYENG A GAME FORIZZLES YO!

No seriously fuck off

It sounds like a perfect solution to this problem (this problem being having more advanced players destroying opponents before said opponents can even get a viable defense up) is to have some game mode in the way of a Tower Defense game (one player defending, one attacking).

[url=#user_comment_27661]@discrider[/url]: Stop making me miss Magic ): I never EVER followed "optimal strats" and made some pretty crazy decks that worked very well (Except against some very expensive decks). Also, yeah, this is really true about Starcraft. I still like UMS more than Melee.

The solution for this is simple: play skirmish/singleplayer campaign/with friends.

I always found this annoying in ranked games of any RTS, especially RA1/2. Why I only tended to play in multiplayer matches with friends as we cuold have a long friendly battle with big bases and huge armies of top level units. Whats the fun of wiping someone out in 5 minutes with a tank rush? :(

On the flip-side, should of shown the ADD children that played the first SC. If they hadn't beat me in 20 minutes they'd generally quit the game. Because, you know a player that can defend against the 3-year old tactic of Zerg rush and drag the fight was just too challenging for their ego.

[url=#user_comment_27672]@Commander204[/url]: Gotta love circular logic, eh? "I'm not allowed to play cause I'm a noob, but I can't stop being a noob because I'm not allowed to play to get better". Fot the photonotes "scoot ees spy", "taaaaank", and "...mother": You win a internet each.

[url=#user_comment_27677]@Shibomi[/url]: The thing is, what people are saying is "if that is how you're "supposed" to play, then I'm not interested in the game". Which is, you know, completely fair. I personally never play RTSs in online multiplayer for that same reason.

I play starcraft for fun. Meaning that I play Use Map Settings instead of actually playing matches.

Seriously... all this crying has to stop, and learn too play the game like you are suppost to . Blizzard is putting a lot of effert into making this game easyer for casual players. I am in no way a good RTS gamer but i dont want blizzard too dumb it down just for some stupid noobz.

My place in RTS games is usually the one gang rushed by everyone else on the map.
As I only play games with people I know and they have this idea that I can take down 3-7 people by myself if I make it past 8 minutes of game time xD

I tend to spend most of my time eating and spectating :/

Supposdely there's beginner, intermediate and expert rooms. Though I suspect that sometimes expert players play in the easy rooms for noobstomps which is... dumb. Seriously how is " lets stomp all over nub players" fun? [url=#user_comment_27663] @Anonymous[/url] Coward: Flashbangs. Blind and deafen enemy for short time.

Lol APM. APM is why RTS games have become so niche these days. They're more complex than FPSs and even THOSE have become more complex (why the hell do I need a non-lethal grenade in Modern Warfare 2 multiplayer?)

Agreed. I hate the way the SC community is.
I'm a customgames casualfag. I don't care about 6pooling or 8pooling or whatever the fuck those things are called. I just want to play.

Fuck you if you want to win the game in 2 minutes to stroke your E-peen. It's a beta, made for testing. Not for rank

@SPY SAPPIN MY SENTRY: 1. It's MAH not MY. xD and 2. I agree with that. I joined a game, UMS, and the guy asks if I've played the map before. I tell him no and he boots me, leaving me sitting there thinking, "What the fuck, mate?"

STOP HAVING FUN GUYS WAAAAAAAAAAA I'M GOING TO GO BE VERY AWESOME AT MODERN WARFARE TWO AND BITCH WHEN I START LOSING

I do like playing starcraft but I hate it when I join a game and some guy tells me Im a noob and leaves. Its like, "HOw should I know I should build a million builder guys at the start? No need to leave asshole. You win the game for me." Need more freindly player. I rather enjoy playing with bots.

I prefer to stay a noob than become pro because in the end who cares if you win or not? It's not going to help you get a job unless you are one of the poor bastards that has waited all his/her life to become a beta tester.

Pixelated glory gets you no where IRL :)

@A Bag of Opinions: Oh oh! I want to play TF2!!! Oh wait...

Also, I miss losing my copy of Total Annihilation. TURTLES FOREVAR

So many kids pretending to know about games, quite amusing. I believe Joe has trolled them all...

'toss player here... DT rushing or spamming massive amounts of rays makes me giggle.

I played single-player of the original StarCraft, and cheated out the wazoo. Just like I do in every RTS.

Yeah, I like RTS, but I completely FAIL at most of 'em.

This is one of my pet peeves.
All I want to do is jump into a game, build my own unique strategy, and then compete it against other's strategies, adapt to them, and then see an eventual winner.
But in RTS and other games like Magic, I just get trounced because I'm not following an optimal strat

I want a fully articulated Marine Figure of that scale...NOW~!

Fortunately Blizzard has promised to launch SC2 with several training scenarios for you to learn things like proper micro, a decent build order, and how to defend against rushes.

I'm in the beta. Anyone want to play against a Bronze Leaguer? My steam is Grug_S. Ask me through that

I love RTS games, though I am unable to playing them well against human players. So I don't. I play campaign and the occasional bot skirmish. My area of "expertise" lies more in the area of FPS, and even then I'm not much of a competitive player. I like my competitve-ish TF2 pubs fine thank you.

Result: casual gamers leave. The developers mostly just hear from those who stick around and swear the matches are balanced. High level play gets balanced. Low level play gets a very limited tutorial, and no way for newbs to learn how to play at even mid level (aside from finding a willing mentor).

Casual gamers tend to get driven away from such games, leaving only the experts to say how the game should evolve. League of Legends is an example of this in the making: people who aren't good at it are matched against those who are (despite efforts to prevent that, it happens all the time).

no u cannot w+m1 it not work since 2007
u can be medic and always top 5

I agree and disagree with the baww. Either I get my defenses up (4-5 photon cannons or equivalent) in time to avoid a rush, or I am dead. After that, either I manage to sneak around the map (that other players memorized pre-game) and find the 1 uncontested resource cluster, or I am dead. Etc.

As true as it is that a lot of people seem to play RTS games for fun (for example see the so to be dead zerg)there are a lot more of RTS gamers that play to win and can get really lets go with insane in a match, guess they should just make one server for fun and another for those 5 hour long matches

HEY GUYS! Who wants to play a casual game?

Show of hands...

...anyone...

...c'mon...

The beta (not demo) is being used as a tool to test the balance of SC2. When the retail version is released and casual gamers can match up with ppl of their skill level, play co-op, or custom games then multiplayer should be more fun. Until then I'll enjoy watching my biological units burn to death.

I think some people have the wrong perception of Blizzard RTS games. "Waahhhhh it's too hard" No it's not. I haven't taken RTS games seriously until I got invited into the Starcraft 2 beta, and I placed in the Gold League 2v2 (after the ladders were reset, I placed copper the first time XP)

This is why, even though I love Blizzard RTSs, I don't play them in multiplayer. I'm only aggressive in capturing resource points, besides that I prefer to play defensively until I have a force big enough to steamroller the other guy

XP

my biggest fear for SC2 is that it will be even more of a rush game than RA3 is. I can't stand RTS games where there is no real viable defensive option, I'm proud to be a turtle.

Anyway, getting rolled over by veterans with vast knowledge of build strategies is one of the reasons for the popularity of RTS games with less complicated gameplay, like World in Conflict. Call these games "noobified", but that's what biased "APM" meatheads say.

You are probably wishing you can clean up your comments column now. There are more than a few l33t punks there that I would love to have them taste my Ban-hammer.

This is exactly why I prefer games like Sins of a Solar empire. All this down to the millisecond memorizing just isn't fun, Sins is a lot more leisurely.

himy?

This is why I can't get into Starcraft/Warcraft/RTS games in general. Too much micro and memorization of goddamn everything required to not fail.

And yet, I can't get enough of Monster Hunter.

No defense? That's hilarious, the standard of Boom(Full econ/tech)/Turtle(Play the D)/Rush(ZERGGG!!!) still exists. And the exertion of map control by maneuver, it's just that you don't get the effective(balanced counter strategy) play until everyone is high Platinum in the ladder.

That is why I only play campaign and custom games.

While a few seconds may make a difference in high levels of play, if you are a noob like you've stated, you would have been crushed LONG before that and by a much larger margin, that the perfection of your silly 14 queen, 15 hatch build execution wouldnt matter.

Sounds like someone is just a sobbing loser. CRY MORE.

Google login doesn't seem to be working. Regardless, this is why I love Starcraft. I really hope you're not trying to say this is something /wrong/ with the game, or I might be very disappointed.

>Implying playing seriously cannot be fun.

Somehow this reminds me of being tank-rushed in Red Alert 2 every other game...funny that.

I've never been a fan of the RTS genre. I've never liked having to refer to other people's strategies and videos to play a game. In any case, when I used to play SC, and the reason I look forward to SC2, is for the scenario maps. Those fun little maps like Tug of War and Day at School if you know em

This reminds me how I can never really "get good" at RTS games. I recently played SCII, and got flattened before even building one marine. Granted, I haven't played any RTS other than AW in years, so...


Also, that's a male Zergling in a dress.
What.

[url=#user_comment_27615]@WontEndWell[/url]: If I gave you a map, could you point out the mountain of ignorance you live under?

[url=#user_comment_27610]@Bobipine[/url]: You still are - static defenses are integral even at the highest level of play.

Yeah, RTSs are dead these days. There's no such thing as defense anymore, just counter spamming units and "time buying buildings." I had hope that at least Supreme Commander would be the series to stand against the ADD infected RTS genre... Then Square Enix bought them. RIP RTS... RIP.

I've tried SC2, and the game itself is a lot more user-friendly than its predecessor, especially in terms of macromanagement. Still, games with other 'casual-level' friends are definitely fun.

Metagame stagnation is a bitch.

He?

I'd fall within the category of uninitialized players.... rarely played RTS, and believed in something called "defense"... how naive was I..

FUN? FUN EES FOR BABIES.

First post. btw, I felt the same way in Halo 3