This is why I play DotA 2. It's all the fun of power progression in an MMO without a monthly fee, at a much faster pace, and it's more friendly to people with crappy Internet like me.

Ironman Stalker MP, 90% of the NPCs taken out, the ability to start as or join any faction, and new content (maps, missions, etc) added for free would be exactly this game.

To keep out the griefers and riff-raff, add a $5 monthly subscription and limit the # of deaths allowed for x time to play.

You should try out Forge ! http://www.playforgewar.com/

[url=#user_comment_169593]@Anon[/url]: Yeah good luck with that...

[url=#user_comment_169847]@Spunky[/url]: DayZ doesn't belong to the MMO group... It's way to awesome to be like them.

guild wars is sorta meh

too wow like, you even have elitists telling you not to buy gears at lower levels so you can get a whole set of tier gears a max level - the pvp's also pointless since its total zerg, and the server lags your region randomly depending on how it felt that day.

meh

The Secret World.

Your argument is invalid.

I want a MMOPRG too! (The hell is that?)

Try The Last Stand Dead Zone on Facebook, it's amazingly not bad. And you don't even need to pay for premium content, you can get (Although slowly) the "fuel" which is the Premium currency in the game, by just playing it.

These carrots taste musky!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbyusk_robot-chicken-snozberries-these-car_shortfilms

Vindictus comes to mind with this strip

3 Words: T. F. 2

DAmn it red engie, COMB YOUR HAIR!

Nerf Now, meet Monster Hunter Online. MHO, Nerf Now.

Good luck funding something like that. No rewards, no carrot = only draw is pure, raw content = infinity development time.

[url=#user_comment_170197]@jolt583[/url]: Apparently some early builds of the game Guild Wars 2 were based off of 3D zelda.

sooo...
a zelda mmorpg?

[url=#user_comment_169955]@bobdole[/url] UO was the shit.

@Some dude: GW2's style of questing is as follows: Do whatever you want. "There's a lot of problems here, could you help us with some of them?" You don't have to go fix robots because your friend is, you can go play that little robo-chess game instead and get just as much credit.

@Some dude: You're completely missing the point of it's style then. Here's the thing...WoW actually punished you if you weren't Recruit a Friend or Scroll of Ress buddies, your exp from kills split in half, and you had to find 2x as many drops for some quests because they don't always share.

[url=#user_comment_170041]@WhodaWhaddaWhereNow[/url]: It can be looked at as a grind, yes, but most people will look at the word "grind" and thing "tedious and boring". I've crafted maybe 3 times since it started up, I'm just playing at my own pace, I'm only level 31...but it doesn't feel like a grind, it feels like adventure.

The time between Classic WOW's end and BC launch was like this.
All gear was easy to get, pvp gear was practically free, everyone was pugging up for BG's and raids for fun. Everyone was max level.
It was plain fun for the sake of fun, pure leisure and no forced goals for stats
Most MMO fun ever

Well when you put it like that it sounds fucking retarded...lol

Quick someone find the kickstarter for this

(cont..) GW2 on the other hand, like Rift before it, is designed more around mostly solo play with drop-in/drop-out group events (GW2 having *different* things for players in the event to do, rather than Rift's just being 'beat up the monsters')...which don't mesh with the formal groups as well.

@Some dude I somewhat get your point, actually. WoW solidified the ideas of what I think of as 'formal grouping' for people, which is perfect if you have an established group of friends you want to team with every time. (cont..)

I love how everyone think this comic is praising/hatin' Guild wars 2. You do realize Jo is poking fun at the general MMORPG market, right?

[url=#user_comment_169916]@JunWasHere[/url] The first guy to hit 80 took two/three days and had friends send him crafting materials to boost him through the last 20 levels. It takes longer than that. And Guild Wars 2 does have grind. What you're doing is fun most of the time, but it's still a grind. Also, in a word: crafting

[url=#user_comment_169847]@Spunky[/url]: Of course nobody will mention that game. It's not an MMO RPG, it's a FFA deathmatch. You get the occasional nugget of gold, but you have to sift through half a ton of shit for it.

Will there be any more minecraft comics? I wish to see engie playing it :D

Too young to have played ultima online, jo?

the fun gameplay its for play it
and the virtual carrot its for how long you play it

its all about balance i think

For anyone who thinks this isn't about GW2

You can reach level80 within the first/second day by pumping through instances.

The game is all about the exploration, gameplay, and social enjoyment of playing with others.

@Some dude: "it's just too chaotic." That's kind of the point: It's supposed to be ultra-casual, and the chaos of doing shit with whoever just happens to be in the same area adds a wonderful dynamic. It's what I've always wanted: a game where I can just log in and do whatever and give no fucks.

I know 'clean' is a stupid description, but it fits the point I'm trying to make.

[url=#user_comment_169863]@Hazama[/url]: Me and a friend just had this conversation about, how WoW questing was actually more enjoyable than GW2. We always quest together in WoW (1-85) and in GW2 (1-25) and Guild Wars group questing simply isn't as clean as WoW, it's just too chaotic.

[url=#user_comment_169254]@Guy[/url]: But the journey isn't a grind. Unlike games like WoW, where the quests are unenjoyable but you do them for the levels, GW2 has fun events and personal story. I WANT to be leveling in GW2, because it is fun even without a big carrot at the end, the game is actually enjoyable to play...

The sad part is that no one is mentioning DayZ..

Fun fades with time.

"Carrots" will always be available and can be improved upon.

Zitro - Exactly, you play for the sake of getting virtual carrots, virtual rewards, not fun.
At least, that's what I think he meant.

Uh, isn't a defining characteristic of a carrot is that it is a reward?

Jo, if you are saying gw2 isn't a grind, you're not paying attention. The carrot isn't always a reward, the carrot can be a challenge. I've been playing gw2 since the pre-release and I have to say I'm trying to find the challenge because my eternal battleground queue is 6 hours long!

this slaps me on the knee!

grinding in it,but the gameplay would be fresh

like ignorant br said planetside 2 is such a mmo,ur goal is to get to win the territory,with a ogranized groups of people,cause u do jack shit alone and i like the shooting in it,tactics apply,zerging only wins if they have a giant population advantage.For a magicka mmo,i feel there will be a

Planetside 2? Nah. By the way, go back to your TF2 comics instead of your shitty female TF2 class comics please.

I don't get this comic. What is it referencing?

Well, all we need is the guys behind Magicka to release a MMORPG then.

Server maintenance fees don't pay for themselves you know.

Gotta keep people hooked on the mmo game in order to pay for upkeep even if it means making the mmo games not as fun or even fun at all.

[url=#user_comment_169666]@2033[/url]: I take offense to that. As for this, it's called free WoW Servers, and those get boring fast even if you RP. The thing with grinding is that it's a challenge for people, and people enjoy a good one... that or we love our Skinner Boxes

What really happens is that you cant pretend to have fun with one game for like 10 year. I believe some MMORPG have done well, but if you spend 2 hours/day for 2 years, every content and gameplay will eventually become dull

The only gameplay left after blue engie removed basicly every other possible thing would be roleplay. And you know nobody likes to roleplay.

What's the threshold for "grinding"?

Do you mean no levels, or do you mean leveling to a cap that is easily and quickly reached? No gear at all, or just no crazy-rare items? No skills, or skills that are easily, or automatically obtained, such that which ones you use is important?

Jo, they've had *those* for decades now--they're called TinyMUDs, and are text-based. Also, Second Life.

Unless you specifically mean a persistent world style MMO, look at most shooters. I mean, recently there's been a trend towards some grind but you can have as many people as you might see in a given PvP situation on an MMO and there's usually no difference besides player skill.

Where are the TheEverything,man comments?

Anon, I just want to let you know that you probably won't. If you get hired, then that alone makes you extremely lucky.

Guys, I just want to let you all know that I will become a lead game dev/designer/programmer and I will change the game industry for better.

So... you want a massively multiplayer online adventure game?[url=#user_comment_169065] @AceD[/url] has the right idea.

The problem isn't milestones, the problem is making the gameplay depend entirely upon reaching them. Once everything meaningful is done, not many people are going to keep playing to get a set of raid gear that has a 0.1% chance to drop from a raid boss.

Now that I think about it, it's kind of true. Would I have played WoW nearly as much if there were no grinding (or "progression" if you prefer)? Could a MMO stand alone on the satisfaction of just playing the game without working towards milestones?

I actually had a lot of fun with WoW (I played Battlegrounds a lot and that gives you jack shit), but once I got to the very end and all that was left was to raid for gear, I just didn't want to play anymore.

I like that the idea of "Fun" is attempted to be implied that it's not dependent on carrots. Carrots are what create the fun, the burst of "Good job!" dopamine. The recent issues with "Fun" are due to small rapid dopamine bursts, you've become desensitized. EQ had it right, long slow epic releases.

@ Platypus: The store is bad very bad but the core of the MP its simply log and have fun. those where my 2cents

Sorry, what I meant to say was, what's the point of winning a Battlefield game if the map will be reset after you win?

@Some random guy
What's the point of replaying Battlefield multiplayer if you've already done it once?

*agree, not play

Got my sentences mixed up.

I have to play with Geary: Firefall is a blast.

This is an MMO where I can jetpack up to a cliff, pick off a bunch of foes in an enemy encampment with a sniper rifle Metal Gear-style, and then drop in and mow down the stragglers and steal their dropped cash before blowing up the core and bolting.

[url=#user_comment_169435]@Eboreg[/url]: What's the point of reaching goal if everything will be reset?

http://www.firefallthegame.com/

Such a game allready exists.

http://www.playforgewar.com/

I think I can make an MMO that doesn't include grind. Basically, there are a number of factions vying for power and whenever a set of allied factions reach their goal, the server is reset to start at the beginning.

I had a dream, where I was playing a necromancer, and I used dagger not because it was optimal, but because it was satisfying to use...

But alas, its a shame a game like this doesn't exist...What? Guild wars 2? Forge? Don't be silly, they are mere myths...

If Second Life is any indication, this ridiculous idea is definitely hard to pull off.

Still, one can hope, right? :(

[url=#user_comment_169365]@Anon[/url]: That game has a bit of item grinding... You'll need a lot of some stuff you only get from one monster if you want to make the full armor sets. Also there is some money grinding too... I'll agree that it mostly is just a gameplay MMO that's just plain fun. But still it has it's share of grind

Are you talking about the Forge Kickstarter?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119369-Meet-the-Female-Team-With-These-Dashing-Team-Fortress-2-Portraits

It is a shame they didn't use your characters.

Guild wars 2 does have a grind, its just very short compared to every other MMO. Guild wars 2 is about having fun not racing to get to 80. The people who did reach lvl 80 already have done it on 1 character and have been playing almost nonstop to get there.

Guild wars 2 is pretty much that.
I really like the gameplay.

Jo, bro. what are you smoking man?! the idea is ludicrous! only a mandamn would as much as allow sucha thought to fly through their head, i think you can still be burned at the stake for such heresy in some countries.

Monster Hunter

[url=#user_comment_169319]@Anonymous[/url] - neither TF2 or L4D are MMOs.

Taking out what could be considered "Grind" takes out what makes it the RPG. Whether it's Grind or not depends on your mood. You have to earn your accomplishments for them to be considered fun - whether that accomplishment is leveling to the cap, or mastering a particular mechanic.

I like how people in comments either see this as strip praising GW2 or attacking it.

Who the hell cares about GW2?

Check out the Ragnarok Online super progress private servers. Dull as hell when there's no incentive to do anything.

So... Second Life?

[url=#user_comment_169106]@Bruceski[/url]: Oh god no! The ME3 MP has some of the worst "carrots" in the history of micro-transactions. The "store" is nothing but Random Number Generated "packs" of unlocks. The Ultra Rare class has at best a 10% drop rate from the most expensive "packs". The UR is random and likely sucks anyways.

[url=#user_comment_169117]@Michael[/url]: Heh, yeah. Someone's been trying to reset my GW password for the past week.

Actually, there's a better example of such an MMO described in the comic than TF2, even. It's called Left 4 Dead, and... it kind of got repetitive after awhile.

Players take "fun" for granted. The content and amount of "fun" in a mmorpg is limited, so if a player gets to have constant variety of "fun", he will eventually find it boring as everyone else are having the same amount of "fun".That's why the "fun" has to be occasional in order to savor the flavor

Those things exist. I think they're called "roleplaying boards".

Is this a GW2 comic? I thought it was talking about forge to be honest.

http://www.playforgewar.com/

So what you saying is you think that the system in GW2 might be a stupid idea and will not work? (This interpretation might be wrong. Also, still wish this comic was less blatant opinion, loved the disguise comic)

Laughter is in reverse?

That's why I play TF2. No grinding, levels, requires skills, and new weapons are fun to find, but you can totally play vanilla without problem (except for spy, I hate the default watch).

That was GW1: No grind save for gear looks which wasn't needed.
Not GW2, since you do grind to cap.... though it's not needed, at all. You'll never run out of content while leveling.

This isn't about GW2.

Level 80? Grind.
Skills? Grind.
Crafting? Grind.
Map exploration? Grind.
Traits? Grind (see: level 80).
Events? Grind (see: level 80).
Dyes? Grind.

Grinding is synonymous for a time sink that drags out too long.

Good gameplay doesn't mean anything without a worthwhile reward IMO. Better MMOs just have a good fun-to-carrot ratio.

Planetside2. There IS a carrot but I forgot about it after couple of days.

GW2. Accept no imitations.

>Sounds like Second Life, if only it was fun

Or if only it was a game.

[url=#user_comment_169191]@Nazrin[/url]: Yep. Pretty much Engie-tan is talking about GW2, indeed.

It depressing how many people aren't realizing this is a GW2 comic.

Yeah engie, that IS ridiculous! I mean, EVERYONE wants me!

Sounds like Second Life, if only it was fun.

I want to see any people playing that game without carrot 2 months after getting it.

Hmm, it wouldn't be an MMORPG without any RPG.

I wonder what an MMO without grind would be.

I guess DayZ is close to that.
And Second Life if you squint your eyes.

Just to point out, at the moment it says MMOPRG instead of RPG.

We need more DOTA2 comics!

TSW is great.

Skinner Box eh.

Freelancer: Discovery?

Those sorts of MMOs won't exist until Virtual Reality is perfected cause gameplay isn't enough to make up for the lack of body movement. Need the carrot to grab players' whole attention.

Ever played DayZ? :)
No levels, no (in game) skills, no grinding, just regular gear.
Gameplay is fun
Million of players :)

A game where you start at max level, and then fight to die, so you can return to newbie stat and the innocence....oh yes, those days...

Sounds a bit like TSW

Here's another idea. A game where you make your account. And three days later it's stolen by a hacker.

[url=#user_comment_169105]@zitro[/url]: You progress through the story, your character gets more powerful and takes on greater threats, you get more gold or tokens that can be redeemed for stuff... There might not be story-impacts or world-impacts, but you can objectively point to something and say "My time spent got me that".

Does ME3 multiplayer count? Numbers go up, but it's pretty damn fun and similar at starter levels.

[url=#user_comment_169074]@Wraithy[/url]: How can you feel like you accomplish anything in a static world, anyway? Nothing you do in a standard mmo will actually change anything in the game, outside of your gears and stats.

Soon, Raidbosses drop lockboxes and safes and you have to pay with physical money for the keys.

Umm. Guild Wars 1? Before Eye of the North.

There have been instances of this. Neverwinter Nights certainly filled this role with some of the amazing custom servers (especially when you got some good DMs involved). Maybe not so "massive," but it felt bigger than most MMOs anyway.

Here's the thing: You do need a carrot for a good MMO, otherwise the gameplay becomes stale because you don't feel like you're accomplishing anything. The level of grind involved is variable, of course, but otherwise you have Diablo III on release once you hit 60: Fun, but what's the point?

Am I the only one who played RYL2 and enjoyed the heck out of it?

Eve online: chat edition to the rescue! After all noone forces you to do boring shootemnpc stuff when you can shoot squares(aka other players) or just sit in station and chat XD

How else will developers hide their lazy game design?

Yeah, it was called Uru Online, I betad for it.

I had fun once.

It was awful.